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>According to the complaint, the dealerships would often wait until the end of the hours-long negotiation process to sneak junk fees for add-on products and ser

>According to the complaint, the dealerships would often wait until the end of the hours-long negotiation process to sneak junk fees for add-on products and services into consumers’ purchase contracts, which often run as long as 60 pages. These junk fees were often added despite consumers specifically declining the add-ons or having confirmed prices that did not include the add-ons. In other cases, the consumers were falsely told the add-ons were free or were a requirement to purchase or finance their vehicle. The F&I office at a car dealership is just such a terrible place. Even if they're not outright trying to cheat you like this, they flood the zone with fast talk about options and numbers, with a healthy dollop of scare tactics to get you to buy "protection plans" you don't need. It's this bizarre mix of complimenting you and insulting your intelligence -- "you seem like a smart guy so I'm sure you're looking at the extended protection plan!" Everything else aside, buying a Tesla was refreshing because I was able to buy a new car on the internet like I'd buy a new blender on Amazon. No "the price is this if you finance and that if you don't," no push for warranties or prepaid service plans, and no obfuscation around finance rates and payments, etc. I ordered and paid for the car online, went to the store to unlock it with my phone, and drove off.

SilasX 5y ago
>The F&I office at a car dealership is just such a terrible place. Even if they're not outright trying to cheat you like this, Yeah, my reaction to that rap sheet was, "wait, that's illegal and actually enforced"? Um FTC, you've got a realllllly long list ahead of you. (Not that it's a bad thing to actually enforce this stuff.)
TheJoeMan 5y ago
These ads for AutoTrader are so funny though because it's "we don't add hidden fees" instead it's "we bought Kelly Blue book so now our prices seem to be fair but are probably the same $2k higher anyways". Glass prison or dirty prison? I suppose it depends on one's confidence in wading through the scammers but getting a better deal. Find cars that have been on the lot almost 30 days - they need to dump them before the dealer has to pay the bank.
to11mtm 5y ago
> F&I office NGL I actually laughed at the last one. It wasn't intentional, just as they made a specific comment about part of the drivetrain, I couldn't take them seriously anymore. They didn't really know what to do about that, which helped things out. > Everything else aside, buying a Tesla was refreshing because I was able to buy a new car on the internet like I'd buy a new blender on Amazon. Saturn did this. I think Scion did too, but could be wrong on that. My first 2 car purchase experience were at Saturn dealerships and TBF it left me ill-prepared for the 'typical' dealership experience. I will say that Truecar was pretty helpful in purchasing one of my cars; at the time I wound up getting invoice on a custom order without a bit of haggling about price. They did do the F&I bit but honestly it was fairly low pressure, (helped it was late in the day and the end of the month so they wanted it on the books.) My last purchase, I was referred by a friend, the salesfolks were up front and didn't upcharge. Yeah they did the F&I thing but were otherwise as close to the Saturn experience as I ever could have wanted. > with a healthy dollop of scare tactics to get you to buy "protection plans" you don't need. Some of them are kinda useful, but case dependent. - My WRX, I opted for the special windshield coat due to my work route at the time being -terrible- for windshields (I went through 2 in one year on my previous car...) And sure enough that crap worked. Between coating applications you could see the dimples. I also opted for Rim protection on that car. In my case it paid for itself, because #PureMichigan - I've -never- opted for an enhanced warranty. I typically take the cost of replacing the most expensive component that could fail within 5 years (and/or the mileage I'd expect to drive in that time) and not be covered within the provided warranties, and compare to what they want for an extended plan. It's almost never worth doing. > "the price is this if you finance and that if you don't," Finance/incentives are weird on the surface, but If you think about 'X$ cash back OR Y% APR through <financing arm>' (where Y is better-ish than common rate,) It's really just buying off the extra interest, like points on a mortgage. Depending on where your credit is at, that financing-arm option may be a better one than others anyway (always shop around though.)
- ben1040 5y ago
  >I think Scion did too, but could be wrong on that. Incidentally my first new car was a Scion and the sales process wasn’t nearly as smooth as they’d like you to think it was. The extent of the ”Pure Pricing” system was that a dealership posted a menu of the vehicle and service prices, and that was the price you paid. It wasn’t a nationally set price — the dealer could price the car as they wished, and everyone who walks in pays that price. All that really changed about the dealership experience was that once I picked a car on the lot, there was no price negotiation to do, so they handed me right off to the Toyota dealership’s F&I guy and it was the standard slimy F&I experience from there. It certainly was not an experience where I was able to go to Scion Dot Com, choose the car, arrange financing and trade-in online, and the delivery appointment is a quick thing where you drop your trade and go. That was the experience with Tesla; I spent all of 15 minutes physically at the store on delivery day and 10 of it was just me adjusting the seats/mirrors and logging into Spotify.
lttlrck 5y ago
Yeah generally people don't buy a car frequently enough to navigate the bullshit, plus you kinda get emotionally invested during the 3 hours they make you hang around, softening you up. I have had pretty good luck laying on my don't give a shit demeanor extra thick. Out of 7 car purchases in 10 years I have had one instance where I should have walked out because the extended warranty BS was insulting (Honda) and once I threatened to walk if they didn't Due Bill a replacement second key - he didn't like that at all... (BMW).

SilasX 5y ago

>The F&I office at a car dealership is just such a terrible place. Even if they're not outright trying to cheat you like this, Yeah, my reaction to that rap sheet was, "wait, that's illegal and actually enforced"? Um FTC, you've got a realllllly long list ahead of you. (Not that it's a bad thing to actually enforce this stuff.)

TheJoeMan 5y ago

These ads for AutoTrader are so funny though because it's "we don't add hidden fees" instead it's "we bought Kelly Blue book so now our prices seem to be fair but are probably the same $2k higher anyways". Glass prison or dirty prison? I suppose it depends on one's confidence in wading through the scammers but getting a better deal. Find cars that have been on the lot almost 30 days - they need to dump them before the dealer has to pay the bank.

to11mtm 5y ago

> F&I office NGL I actually laughed at the last one. It wasn't intentional, just as they made a specific comment about part of the drivetrain, I couldn't take them seriously anymore. They didn't really know what to do about that, which helped things out. > Everything else aside, buying a Tesla was refreshing because I was able to buy a new car on the internet like I'd buy a new blender on Amazon. Saturn did this. I think Scion did too, but could be wrong on that. My first 2 car purchase experience were at Saturn dealerships and TBF it left me ill-prepared for the 'typical' dealership experience. I will say that Truecar was pretty helpful in purchasing one of my cars; at the time I wound up getting invoice on a custom order without a bit of haggling about price. They did do the F&I bit but honestly it was fairly low pressure, (helped it was late in the day and the end of the month so they wanted it on the books.) My last purchase, I was referred by a friend, the salesfolks were up front and didn't upcharge. Yeah they did the F&I thing but were otherwise as close to the Saturn experience as I ever could have wanted. > with a healthy dollop of scare tactics to get you to buy "protection plans" you don't need. Some of them are kinda useful, but case dependent. - My WRX, I opted for the special windshield coat due to my work route at the time being -terrible- for windshields (I went through 2 in one year on my previous car...) And sure enough that crap worked. Between coating applications you could see the dimples. I also opted for Rim protection on that car. In my case it paid for itself, because #PureMichigan - I've -never- opted for an enhanced warranty. I typically take the cost of replacing the most expensive component that could fail within 5 years (and/or the mileage I'd expect to drive in that time) and not be covered within the provided warranties, and compare to what they want for an extended plan. It's almost never worth doing. > "the price is this if you finance and that if you don't," Finance/incentives are weird on the surface, but If you think about 'X$ cash back OR Y% APR through <financing arm>' (where Y is better-ish than common rate,) It's really just buying off the extra interest, like points on a mortgage. Depending on where your credit is at, that financing-arm option may be a better one than others anyway (always shop around though.)

ben1040 5y ago
>I think Scion did too, but could be wrong on that. Incidentally my first new car was a Scion and the sales process wasn’t nearly as smooth as they’d like you to think it was. The extent of the ”Pure Pricing” system was that a dealership posted a menu of the vehicle and service prices, and that was the price you paid. It wasn’t a nationally set price — the dealer could price the car as they wished, and everyone who walks in pays that price. All that really changed about the dealership experience was that once I picked a car on the lot, there was no price negotiation to do, so they handed me right off to the Toyota dealership’s F&I guy and it was the standard slimy F&I experience from there. It certainly was not an experience where I was able to go to Scion Dot Com, choose the car, arrange financing and trade-in online, and the delivery appointment is a quick thing where you drop your trade and go. That was the experience with Tesla; I spent all of 15 minutes physically at the store on delivery day and 10 of it was just me adjusting the seats/mirrors and logging into Spotify.

lttlrck 5y ago

Yeah generally people don't buy a car frequently enough to navigate the bullshit, plus you kinda get emotionally invested during the 3 hours they make you hang around, softening you up. I have had pretty good luck laying on my don't give a shit demeanor extra thick. Out of 7 car purchases in 10 years I have had one instance where I should have walked out because the extended warranty BS was insulting (Honda) and once I threatened to walk if they didn't Due Bill a replacement second key - he didn't like that at all... (BMW).