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> these roles are usually high stakes and the cost of a bad hire is too high Really? High stakes? This fucking site. Have you ever worked as a software develo

> these roles are usually high stakes and the cost of a bad hire is too high Really? High stakes? This fucking site. Have you ever worked as a software developer at a corporation? Nothing about it is high stakes. You spend most of your time dealing with useless idiots who report to other useless idiots, who report to other useless idiots, about a useless product they think is a great idea that every non-idiot knows is useless garbage. That's how you get Google not creating a single non garbage product over the past 15 years. When they did Google Maps, did they have 7 interview processes? I bet you they didn't. Here is how the real world works - 0.0001% create something, then 99.9999% turn it into what 99.9999% of people are. What that is - I leave to you as an exercise.

lokar 5y ago
Google has has 6+ interviews since at least 2003
novok 5y ago
High stakes means high investment. You can’t just hire a dev and have them running in a week, their bad work could cost the company multi-millions in obvious and non obvious ways and proper onboarding takes months at minimum. On the other hand, a cashier can be replaced in a week, and they don’t effect the entire future of the company as SOP.
- sjg007 5y ago
  Eh I don't believe it is a million dollar hit. If it is then you have bad controls and bad process. Google is optimizing for the wrong things. The reason Google has hard interviews is to minimize attrition and make everyone who passes the interview feel smart.
  - mrep 5y ago
    Have you worked at GAFAM? I've been on 3 person teams with over a million dollars a year in hardware expenses and we've done some crazy optimizations on our c++/java code.
- UnpossibleJim 5y ago
  Ok, for the record, I haven't worked at a FAANG company so the stakes weren't as high. Just video game studios, so million dollar companies not billion. Even on our systems, we had so many redundancies and test servers run, that even when a mistake did run through (which was exceedingly rare, given the testing), the roll back was quick. A single dev, especially a new hire, was unable to make multi-million dollar mistakes. It had to be several systems to fail, in order to be released to the wild. I can't believe any of the FAANG companies got to where they are with such a "cowboy" attitude as to say, "it's your third day, push that untested code straight to prod". Edit: autocorrect hates me
  - sgustard 5y ago
    > we had so many redundancies and test servers run How did you hire the developers who built those systems? Was the bar higher then? Lots of companies have institutional memory of how their first few hires were crucial to make the company successful. It's a tough decision whether to keep standards high, or risk losing the skills that got you this far. Eventually the early people leave. Where I work, the stuff they built is viewed as some kind of godlike crystalline shrine that you dare not touch.
    - UnpossibleJim 5y ago
      It isn't just a one person show, is all I'm saying. The many are more capable than the one. Even if mistakes get made, there are processes (maybe a better word than systems) in place to keep it from turning into a failure in the wild, and if it does sneak through, it's a relatively simple roll back. When a new hire comes on, that institutional knowledge must get passed on - hopefully there is good documentation, though it's never as good as hoped. No matter how well a new hire does on their knowledge test, TBH, the most important thing I hope someone I get to work with is culture fit and the ability to learn fairly quickly =[ how to interview for that is pretty difficult, though.
- nowherebeen 5y ago
  > their bad work could cost the company multi-millions They is false and hyperbole to justify your argument. If a single employee can cost a big company like Google multi-millions, then there is a company structure problem. You make it sound like there are no system of checks. The very definition of being 1 in 10,000 employees at big corp is that no one is important enough to cost the company multi-millions.
  - novok 5y ago
    You can tell when someone hasn't worked at a google sized company when... Yes, it happens all, the, time. It's just not public information.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- deckard1 5y ago
  > their bad work could cost the company multi-millions That's such patently absurd bullshit. Google has a code review process. Almost any large tech company has this today. The review process is to ensure that it's a team effort when a major screw-up happens. You don't just let some new employee merge untested and unreviewed code. You know who I always see harming the company with outages and downtime? Seniors and managers that cut corners. I've had managers before that put in place all these safe guards that go out the window the very second a deadline is threatened. They merge untested code. They route traffic haphazardly. They fuck around with DNS or user accounts on a whim. Because no one is there to tell them not to. They believe they are the exception. The rules are for the minions below them. If you're working late on a weekend cleaning up a huge mess, there is a good chance it's because some manager-turned-arsonist fucked around with the process. They cut corners on the planning, the implementation, or the roll-out.
  - novok 5y ago
    You don't think those managers are "dealt with"? Lol yes they are, but it shows up in 'reorgs'. And outages still occur even with code review, unit tests and alerting.
what-the-grump 5y ago
Hey stop stepping on fragile egos. We gave out participation trophies to a whole generation. Hiring one wrong dev will end google!
- nowherebeen 5y ago
  I have to agree with you. So many people try justify the interview process with their intelligence or "costing the company multi-millions". It's all tied to their ego. I wonder how much of it is stockholm syndrome.
greenyoda 5y ago
> When they did Google Maps, did they have 7 interview processes? Actually, the original work for Google Maps was done by three companies that Google acquired: > Google Maps first started as a C++ program designed by two Danish brothers, Lars and Jens Eilstrup Rasmussen, and Noel Gordon and Stephen Ma, at the Sydney-based company Where 2 Technologies. It was first designed to be separately downloaded by users, but the company later pitched the idea for a purely Web-based product to Google management, changing the method of distribution. In October 2004, the company was acquired by Google Inc. where it transformed into the web application Google Maps. In the same month, Google acquired Keyhole, a geospatial data visualization company (with investment from the CIA), whose marquee application suite, Earth Viewer, emerged as the highly successful Google Earth application in 2005 while other aspects of its core technology were integrated into Google Maps. In September 2004, Google acquired ZipDash, a company that provided realtime traffic analysis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Maps#Acquisitions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Maps#Acquisitions Android was also acquired: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)#His... Some of the things that Google is best known for were not invented by Google employees.
- alexashka 5y ago
  Wow, I didn't know that but I am also not surprised. So Google had one good product in 20+ years. Lol. At least they have 7 interviews to make sure they don't make a 'bad hire'.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

lokar 5y ago

Google has has 6+ interviews since at least 2003

novok 5y ago

High stakes means high investment. You can’t just hire a dev and have them running in a week, their bad work could cost the company multi-millions in obvious and non obvious ways and proper onboarding takes months at minimum. On the other hand, a cashier can be replaced in a week, and they don’t effect the entire future of the company as SOP.

sjg007 5y ago
Eh I don't believe it is a million dollar hit. If it is then you have bad controls and bad process. Google is optimizing for the wrong things. The reason Google has hard interviews is to minimize attrition and make everyone who passes the interview feel smart.
- mrep 5y ago
  Have you worked at GAFAM? I've been on 3 person teams with over a million dollars a year in hardware expenses and we've done some crazy optimizations on our c++/java code.
UnpossibleJim 5y ago
Ok, for the record, I haven't worked at a FAANG company so the stakes weren't as high. Just video game studios, so million dollar companies not billion. Even on our systems, we had so many redundancies and test servers run, that even when a mistake did run through (which was exceedingly rare, given the testing), the roll back was quick. A single dev, especially a new hire, was unable to make multi-million dollar mistakes. It had to be several systems to fail, in order to be released to the wild. I can't believe any of the FAANG companies got to where they are with such a "cowboy" attitude as to say, "it's your third day, push that untested code straight to prod". Edit: autocorrect hates me
- sgustard 5y ago
  > we had so many redundancies and test servers run How did you hire the developers who built those systems? Was the bar higher then? Lots of companies have institutional memory of how their first few hires were crucial to make the company successful. It's a tough decision whether to keep standards high, or risk losing the skills that got you this far. Eventually the early people leave. Where I work, the stuff they built is viewed as some kind of godlike crystalline shrine that you dare not touch.
  - UnpossibleJim 5y ago
    It isn't just a one person show, is all I'm saying. The many are more capable than the one. Even if mistakes get made, there are processes (maybe a better word than systems) in place to keep it from turning into a failure in the wild, and if it does sneak through, it's a relatively simple roll back. When a new hire comes on, that institutional knowledge must get passed on - hopefully there is good documentation, though it's never as good as hoped. No matter how well a new hire does on their knowledge test, TBH, the most important thing I hope someone I get to work with is culture fit and the ability to learn fairly quickly =[ how to interview for that is pretty difficult, though.
nowherebeen 5y ago
> their bad work could cost the company multi-millions They is false and hyperbole to justify your argument. If a single employee can cost a big company like Google multi-millions, then there is a company structure problem. You make it sound like there are no system of checks. The very definition of being 1 in 10,000 employees at big corp is that no one is important enough to cost the company multi-millions.
- novok 5y ago
  You can tell when someone hasn't worked at a google sized company when... Yes, it happens all, the, time. It's just not public information.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
deckard1 5y ago
> their bad work could cost the company multi-millions That's such patently absurd bullshit. Google has a code review process. Almost any large tech company has this today. The review process is to ensure that it's a team effort when a major screw-up happens. You don't just let some new employee merge untested and unreviewed code. You know who I always see harming the company with outages and downtime? Seniors and managers that cut corners. I've had managers before that put in place all these safe guards that go out the window the very second a deadline is threatened. They merge untested code. They route traffic haphazardly. They fuck around with DNS or user accounts on a whim. Because no one is there to tell them not to. They believe they are the exception. The rules are for the minions below them. If you're working late on a weekend cleaning up a huge mess, there is a good chance it's because some manager-turned-arsonist fucked around with the process. They cut corners on the planning, the implementation, or the roll-out.
- novok 5y ago
  You don't think those managers are "dealt with"? Lol yes they are, but it shows up in 'reorgs'. And outages still occur even with code review, unit tests and alerting.

what-the-grump 5y ago

Hey stop stepping on fragile egos. We gave out participation trophies to a whole generation. Hiring one wrong dev will end google!

nowherebeen 5y ago
I have to agree with you. So many people try justify the interview process with their intelligence or "costing the company multi-millions". It's all tied to their ego. I wonder how much of it is stockholm syndrome.

greenyoda 5y ago

> When they did Google Maps, did they have 7 interview processes? Actually, the original work for Google Maps was done by three companies that Google acquired: > Google Maps first started as a C++ program designed by two Danish brothers, Lars and Jens Eilstrup Rasmussen, and Noel Gordon and Stephen Ma, at the Sydney-based company Where 2 Technologies. It was first designed to be separately downloaded by users, but the company later pitched the idea for a purely Web-based product to Google management, changing the method of distribution. In October 2004, the company was acquired by Google Inc. where it transformed into the web application Google Maps. In the same month, Google acquired Keyhole, a geospatial data visualization company (with investment from the CIA), whose marquee application suite, Earth Viewer, emerged as the highly successful Google Earth application in 2005 while other aspects of its core technology were integrated into Google Maps. In September 2004, Google acquired ZipDash, a company that provided realtime traffic analysis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Maps#Acquisitions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Maps#Acquisitions Android was also acquired: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)#His... Some of the things that Google is best known for were not invented by Google employees.

alexashka 5y ago
Wow, I didn't know that but I am also not surprised. So Google had one good product in 20+ years. Lol. At least they have 7 interviews to make sure they don't make a 'bad hire'.

deleted 5y ago

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