8 ms·

10 years from now, there will be nobody on earth able to say "i know c++" because each codebase will use a completely different set of bazillion optional featur

10 years from now, there will be nobody on earth able to say "i know c++" because each codebase will use a completely different set of bazillion optional features making each codebase look like an entirely different language from each other. but maybe thats how we'll finally get rid of c++.

ben-schaaf 5y ago
I'd argue we've already been there for a while with everyone using a different subset of C++. I don't think it's made the language less popular.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  If anything other languages are catching up in complexity.
pjmlp 5y ago
I have to agree, but then we need replacements for everything that is written in C++, like LLVM.
Mikeb85 5y ago
> 10 years from now, there will be nobody on earth able to say "i know c++" because each codebase will use a completely different set of bazillion optional features making each codebase look like an entirely different language from each other. I mean, this is kind of why C++ is successful. It's a toolbox that'll do anything and you can write high level or low level code. > but maybe thats how we'll finally get rid of c++ Lol we're never getting rid of it. There's too much C++ software and will Rust replace it all? Probably not.
- MathCodeLove 5y ago
  There's too much Flash content on the web we'll never deprecate it
  - not2b 5y ago
    Bad analogy. Flash was never the core technology of the web, and it was proprietary to one company, which made it much easier to kill when that one company lost interest. It will take a long time for C++ to fade away, because of all of the useful code written in it.
  - tialaramex 5y ago
    Right. And a lot of the content is on Myspace, which is pretty much baked in to how everybody lives now. If you tried to launch some sort of rival service, even if it was as good as Myspace why would anybody join it? Next thing somebody's going to talk about handheld computers again, as if you could convince ordinary people to carry a computer around with them. Not likely. More Seriously: You shouldn't believe any of this nonsense about how we're permanently locked in to something that's less than a century old. There are plenty of people still alive today who were born in a world that not only didn't have C++ it didn't have programmable computers at all.
  - josefx 5y ago
    And thanks to tools like Ruffle flash is still alive and well, despite the coordinated effort to kill it.
  - kllrnohj 5y ago
    If people actually got to make their own choice on that I'd strongly guess that Flash wouldn't have ever gone away. Browsers declared HTML5 was going to replace Flash long before it was actually capable of doing so (and arguably still isn't). But it only took ~4 "deciders" to kill Flash regardless of what anyone else wanted, which was Apple, Microsoft, Google, and Mozilla (and eventually Adobe decided it didn't care about Flash anymore either). Nobody so centrally "owns" C++ such that there could be a concerted deprecation effort that anyone would actually care to listen to & respect. Even if the C++ committee itself decided to kill C++, and got G++, MSVC, and Clang on board, which is extremely unlikely, would anyone even care that much or just keep using the last release of the compilers with support until the end of time? Kinda like they do for FORTRAN. And COBOL. And etc...
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
dagmx 5y ago
I've never met anyone who knows the entirety of C++ today. Some people kept up with C++11 maybe, but anything beyond that is quickly getting into the territory where there's bits of the language that are truly arcane to even very experienced devs. even then what does it mean to "know c++"? Do you mean the spec? Specific implementations? IMHO the language and implementation have been far from simple for almost a decade now. I don't think that's necessarily a negative though.
klyrs 5y ago
> but maybe thats how we'll finally get rid of c++. I feel like you didn't read your own comment here. What you've described is a world that is littered with so many c++ variants, it will be impossible to eradicate them.
- replygirl 5y ago
  The more variants there are, the less active work is required to EOL every variant. Let's be flavor accelerationists.
mattgreenrocks 5y ago
> each codebase will use a completely different set of bazillion optional features making each codebase look like an entirely different language The issue is each codebase has its own DSL? That is pretty close to the case with all non-C++ langs: industry settles on a handful of frameworks which are syntactically similar but each has their own gotchas.
- jcelerier 5y ago
  > The issue is each codebase has its own DSL It's not "an issue", it's in my opinion the very best development methodology there is: develop eDSLs for every sub-problems in the system
  - mattgreenrocks 5y ago
    Agreed. It’s perceived as an issue because it contradicts the desirable illusion that standardizing on tools would fix the software problem.
jurschreuder 5y ago
This might sound kinda weird, but I really like reading about coding languages and with c++ there is so much to discover that I really like that. It's like buying an expensive car with a lot of options and even after years you discover new buttons. If you like reading about low level code and implementations of recent new techniques in computer science, then you'll love c++, there is always so much going on. I've learned almost all coding languages and they've become simple and boring, articles about them feel like reading a children's book. It's definitely not easy to learn all features, but it also doesn't become boring so fast.
- krelian 5y ago
  I know that feeling. There is joy is reading a good technical manual. Enjoyment in seeing a complex system built up. How the parts support each other and intermix to produce something complex and intricate. Once you have read it all and have in your head a complete mental image of how it works, when you can open the manual to any page and not feel lost, there is additional enjoyment and sense of completeness.
  - jsrcout 5y ago
    I remember that feeling. I've given up on ever experiencing it with C++. Too much of C++ feels like complexity for the sake of fixing other complexity, which makes it harder to get excited about learning it. Maybe I'm just getting old.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mbrodersen 5y ago
The world runs on C/C++ code. There are more than 5 million C++ developers out there and that number is increasing. So it doesn’t look as if C++ will go away any time soon.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Even C++ wannabe replacements build themselves on top of GCC and LLVM.

ben-schaaf 5y ago

I'd argue we've already been there for a while with everyone using a different subset of C++. I don't think it's made the language less popular.

pjmlp 5y ago
If anything other languages are catching up in complexity.

pjmlp 5y ago

I have to agree, but then we need replacements for everything that is written in C++, like LLVM.

Mikeb85 5y ago

> 10 years from now, there will be nobody on earth able to say "i know c++" because each codebase will use a completely different set of bazillion optional features making each codebase look like an entirely different language from each other. I mean, this is kind of why C++ is successful. It's a toolbox that'll do anything and you can write high level or low level code. > but maybe thats how we'll finally get rid of c++ Lol we're never getting rid of it. There's too much C++ software and will Rust replace it all? Probably not.

MathCodeLove 5y ago
There's too much Flash content on the web we'll never deprecate it
- not2b 5y ago
  Bad analogy. Flash was never the core technology of the web, and it was proprietary to one company, which made it much easier to kill when that one company lost interest. It will take a long time for C++ to fade away, because of all of the useful code written in it.
- tialaramex 5y ago
  Right. And a lot of the content is on Myspace, which is pretty much baked in to how everybody lives now. If you tried to launch some sort of rival service, even if it was as good as Myspace why would anybody join it? Next thing somebody's going to talk about handheld computers again, as if you could convince ordinary people to carry a computer around with them. Not likely. More Seriously: You shouldn't believe any of this nonsense about how we're permanently locked in to something that's less than a century old. There are plenty of people still alive today who were born in a world that not only didn't have C++ it didn't have programmable computers at all.
- josefx 5y ago
  And thanks to tools like Ruffle flash is still alive and well, despite the coordinated effort to kill it.
- kllrnohj 5y ago
  If people actually got to make their own choice on that I'd strongly guess that Flash wouldn't have ever gone away. Browsers declared HTML5 was going to replace Flash long before it was actually capable of doing so (and arguably still isn't). But it only took ~4 "deciders" to kill Flash regardless of what anyone else wanted, which was Apple, Microsoft, Google, and Mozilla (and eventually Adobe decided it didn't care about Flash anymore either). Nobody so centrally "owns" C++ such that there could be a concerted deprecation effort that anyone would actually care to listen to & respect. Even if the C++ committee itself decided to kill C++, and got G++, MSVC, and Clang on board, which is extremely unlikely, would anyone even care that much or just keep using the last release of the compilers with support until the end of time? Kinda like they do for FORTRAN. And COBOL. And etc...
- Mikeb85 5y ago

dagmx 5y ago

I've never met anyone who knows the entirety of C++ today. Some people kept up with C++11 maybe, but anything beyond that is quickly getting into the territory where there's bits of the language that are truly arcane to even very experienced devs. even then what does it mean to "know c++"? Do you mean the spec? Specific implementations? IMHO the language and implementation have been far from simple for almost a decade now. I don't think that's necessarily a negative though.

klyrs 5y ago

> but maybe thats how we'll finally get rid of c++. I feel like you didn't read your own comment here. What you've described is a world that is littered with so many c++ variants, it will be impossible to eradicate them.

replygirl 5y ago
The more variants there are, the less active work is required to EOL every variant. Let's be flavor accelerationists.

mattgreenrocks 5y ago

> each codebase will use a completely different set of bazillion optional features making each codebase look like an entirely different language The issue is each codebase has its own DSL? That is pretty close to the case with all non-C++ langs: industry settles on a handful of frameworks which are syntactically similar but each has their own gotchas.

jcelerier 5y ago
> The issue is each codebase has its own DSL It's not "an issue", it's in my opinion the very best development methodology there is: develop eDSLs for every sub-problems in the system
- mattgreenrocks 5y ago
  Agreed. It’s perceived as an issue because it contradicts the desirable illusion that standardizing on tools would fix the software problem.

jurschreuder 5y ago

This might sound kinda weird, but I really like reading about coding languages and with c++ there is so much to discover that I really like that. It's like buying an expensive car with a lot of options and even after years you discover new buttons. If you like reading about low level code and implementations of recent new techniques in computer science, then you'll love c++, there is always so much going on. I've learned almost all coding languages and they've become simple and boring, articles about them feel like reading a children's book. It's definitely not easy to learn all features, but it also doesn't become boring so fast.

krelian 5y ago
I know that feeling. There is joy is reading a good technical manual. Enjoyment in seeing a complex system built up. How the parts support each other and intermix to produce something complex and intricate. Once you have read it all and have in your head a complete mental image of how it works, when you can open the manual to any page and not feel lost, there is additional enjoyment and sense of completeness.
- jsrcout 5y ago
  I remember that feeling. I've given up on ever experiencing it with C++. Too much of C++ feels like complexity for the sake of fixing other complexity, which makes it harder to get excited about learning it. Maybe I'm just getting old.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

mbrodersen 5y ago

The world runs on C/C++ code. There are more than 5 million C++ developers out there and that number is increasing. So it doesn’t look as if C++ will go away any time soon.

pjmlp 5y ago
Even C++ wannabe replacements build themselves on top of GCC and LLVM.