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The moment we make a robot capable of reliably fetching a sandwich it will no longer be ethical for us to order it around (at least, not without paying a salary

The moment we make a robot capable of reliably fetching a sandwich it will no longer be ethical for us to order it around (at least, not without paying a salary).

code_duck 15y ago
Why would the robot need a salary? So it can buy afford robot entertainment on the weekends?
- philh 15y ago
  It wouldn't necessarily be a money-salary. But to be precise: at that point, it will no longer be ethical for us to order it around. We will have to resort to asking politely or to bargaining, such as giving it some form of salary in exchange for fetching sandwiches.
  - felipemnoa 15y ago
    That is rich. Robots will be tools, nothing more. Until a bug in their hardware or software causes them to rebel, of course.
    - velocicopter 15y ago
      Tools can't reliably fetch sandwiches: 'My usual.' or 'ham salad, easy on the mayo.' Then the robot has to cross the street, queue at the sandwich store, discover that they're fresh out of mayo, or whatever, and has to decide what to do next. Should it contact you for new instructions, take the initiative and visit a different place, buy ingredients and prepare a snack personally, or any other of countless possibilities? Any of which may involve handling new, unanticipated phenomena. Thus fetching a sandwich, reliably, is a creative task, and any entity capable of doing it has achieved human status.
      - icebraining 15y ago
        The programmer will write an algorithm which is capable of generating a fitness function for each action based on its current goal(s). Then it'll decide what to do based on the action with the best fitness value.
        AretNCarlsen 15y ago
        Just like I do when I want a sandwich.
        ars 15y ago
        Except you wrote your own fitness function, it wasn't written for you.
      - reledi 15y ago
        > Thus fetching a sandwich, reliably, is a creative task, and any entity capable of doing it has achieved human status. Robots in Futurama are near human status. Real robots (including the one you described) are not. Fetching a sandwich as a robot is an algorithmic task.
  - rohern 15y ago
    First time I've heard etiquette equated with ethics.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
  - code_duck 15y ago
    Fetching a sandwich means nothing. Deciding to fetch a sandwich because I'm hungry, seem stressed and the robot likes me... but won't get a sandwich for my coworker, because he's a jerk - then it may be time for compensation. The robot still is not likely to need a salary anymore than a horse needs a salary, however.
bdonlan 15y ago
What if the robot really enjoys fetching sandwiches? Sure, that may be because we programmed it to enjoy (experience a high fitness value for) obeying orders, but once we've created such a being, do we not have an ethical obligation to order it around, so that it can feel enjoyment? Why should we go out of our way to build robots with similar ideas of what is pleasurable to us?
- mannicken 15y ago
  What if you programmed a human to enjoy finding sandwiches? Well, now that you think of it we are all in a way programmed to enjoy certain things through classical conditioning.
- philh 15y ago
  To me, "ordering it around" implies the threat of negative consequences if it refuses. If it really enjoys fetching sandwiches, there's no reason we shouldn't ask it to; but if it decides for whatever reason that it doesn't want to fetch sandwiches even though it really enjoys doing so, we can't say "fetch me that sandwich or I'll activate your disutility circuits".

The moment we make a robot capable of reliably fetching a sandwich it will no longer be ethical for us to order it around (at least, not without paying a salary).

code_duck 15y ago

Why would the robot need a salary? So it can buy afford robot entertainment on the weekends?

philh 15y ago
It wouldn't necessarily be a money-salary. But to be precise: at that point, it will no longer be ethical for us to order it around. We will have to resort to asking politely or to bargaining, such as giving it some form of salary in exchange for fetching sandwiches.
- felipemnoa 15y ago
  That is rich. Robots will be tools, nothing more. Until a bug in their hardware or software causes them to rebel, of course.
  - velocicopter 15y ago
    Tools can't reliably fetch sandwiches: 'My usual.' or 'ham salad, easy on the mayo.' Then the robot has to cross the street, queue at the sandwich store, discover that they're fresh out of mayo, or whatever, and has to decide what to do next. Should it contact you for new instructions, take the initiative and visit a different place, buy ingredients and prepare a snack personally, or any other of countless possibilities? Any of which may involve handling new, unanticipated phenomena. Thus fetching a sandwich, reliably, is a creative task, and any entity capable of doing it has achieved human status.
    - icebraining 15y ago
      The programmer will write an algorithm which is capable of generating a fitness function for each action based on its current goal(s). Then it'll decide what to do based on the action with the best fitness value.
      - AretNCarlsen 15y ago
        Just like I do when I want a sandwich.
        ars 15y ago
        Except you wrote your own fitness function, it wasn't written for you.
    - reledi 15y ago
      > Thus fetching a sandwich, reliably, is a creative task, and any entity capable of doing it has achieved human status. Robots in Futurama are near human status. Real robots (including the one you described) are not. Fetching a sandwich as a robot is an algorithmic task.
- rohern 15y ago
  First time I've heard etiquette equated with ethics.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
- code_duck 15y ago
  Fetching a sandwich means nothing. Deciding to fetch a sandwich because I'm hungry, seem stressed and the robot likes me... but won't get a sandwich for my coworker, because he's a jerk - then it may be time for compensation. The robot still is not likely to need a salary anymore than a horse needs a salary, however.

bdonlan 15y ago

What if the robot really enjoys fetching sandwiches? Sure, that may be because we programmed it to enjoy (experience a high fitness value for) obeying orders, but once we've created such a being, do we not have an ethical obligation to order it around, so that it can feel enjoyment? Why should we go out of our way to build robots with similar ideas of what is pleasurable to us?

mannicken 15y ago
What if you programmed a human to enjoy finding sandwiches? Well, now that you think of it we are all in a way programmed to enjoy certain things through classical conditioning.
philh 15y ago
To me, "ordering it around" implies the threat of negative consequences if it refuses. If it really enjoys fetching sandwiches, there's no reason we shouldn't ask it to; but if it decides for whatever reason that it doesn't want to fetch sandwiches even though it really enjoys doing so, we can't say "fetch me that sandwich or I'll activate your disutility circuits".