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This is blatant pro-military sector propaganda. No autocracy is coming for our democracy. Usually it's the "democracies" like ours that go on the other side of

This is blatant pro-military sector propaganda. No autocracy is coming for our democracy. Usually it's the "democracies" like ours that go on the other side of the world to impose democracy (the irony) on people who never asked for it. Even Russia has shown no intention of imposing an autocracy in Ukraine. The major threat to our democracies are capitalism and the slow acceptance of fascism as a political force, rather than a scourge to eradicate. Remember, capitalism doesn't need democracy to function. Fascism has always coexisted with capitalism.

Qem 5y ago
> No autocracy is coming for our democracy. Usually it's the "democracies" like ours that go on the other side of the world to impose democracy (the irony) on people who never asked for it. Except when the "democracies" pick an autocrat as their BFF, and showers him with money and weapons, like happens to the murderous psychopath that rules Saudi Arabia and likes to butcher journalists.
toss1 5y ago
>>Even Russia has shown no intention of imposing an autocracy in Ukraine. Putin runs an established autocracy in Russia (in this case, basically a transnational criminal gang masquerading as a government). Political opponents are openly murdered and jailed on pretext. Putin himself said that Ukraine should not have a right to exist as a separate state, and that Ukrainians should be under Russian rule. He has already imposed that on Crimea and more. Russia has now invaded Ukraine specifically in order to impose autocracy in Ukraine. So how can you make such a statement? (Or should I just read you as one of the idiots who said on 23-Feb-2022 that Russia would never invade Ukraine?)
alkonaut 5y ago
> Russia has shown no intention of imposing an autocracy in Ukraine. Care to elaborate? What is it Russia is doing in Ukraine? To me it looks like Ukraine was given a choice of becoming a vassal state like Belarus or Russia would ensure this by force (or at least ensure it in parts of the country where it’s militarily feasible to do so). > The major threat to our democracies are capitalism In what sense? The correlation between capitalist and democratic countries is nearly perfect - so obviously the only countries that risk losing their democracy are capitalist states. The others never had any to lose.
MrMan 5y ago
reducing ukraine to rubble then taking the gas fields in the east is definitely better than imposing an autocracy! the Atlantic has sunk to trash level and its bad opinion pieces cranked out daily incite bad discussion here and give propagandists and reactionaries a lot of fuel
drewcoo 5y ago
Capitalism is at odds with democracy. Democracy is about representing all of us equally whereas capitalism is about some people getting more than others.
- toss1 5y ago
  No First, Capitalism is vastly more compatible with democracy than is Autocracy. Second, while the basis of Capitalism is a "Free Market(TM)", in reality, there is no free market - any market must be regulated in order to exist, whether the regulations are informal moral and ethical codes or formal sets of commercial laws and regulations that require large trucks to haul the full set (as in the US), and a set of courts to enforce them, or a combination of both. What you are indicating as the problem for capitalism in relation to democracy is actually a problem of some implementations of democracy, which is regulatory and legislative capture by corporate interests. THAT has a serious possibility to get out of hand, undermine democracy, and exacerbate inequality. No question, better tools are needed to reduce the influence of corporations in the democracy, but eliminating capitalism will not do that - what you will get is something like the old Soviet state, which sucked far worse than any capitalist state.
  - pastacacioepepe 5y ago
    And yet, every time democracy votes out capitalism, fascism intervenes to protect the capital. The capital gladly renounces democracy in order to protect its interests. This happened literally every time. The only way you get rid of capitalism is with a revolution. They won't allow you to vote it away.
    - toss1 5y ago
      Yes, that often happens. Perhaps you should look at the history and governments of Norway, Sweden, and Finland. It was a very hard fight, with violence, but it was achieved. We can also notice that the Nordics aren't exactly hotbeds of growth, although there seems to be no shortage of innovation there. Yes, it is a damn hard balance to achieve, and harder to maintain. Yes, many of the capitalists will happily turn towards fascist-like tendencies. The key is to dial up the market regulation so that the excesses are curbed and to minimize (but not eliminate) inequality. Killing capitalism altogether by having the government own all the means of production is simply a recipe for disaster. IMO, the Nordic model is really the most sustainable.

Qem 5y ago

> No autocracy is coming for our democracy. Usually it's the "democracies" like ours that go on the other side of the world to impose democracy (the irony) on people who never asked for it. Except when the "democracies" pick an autocrat as their BFF, and showers him with money and weapons, like happens to the murderous psychopath that rules Saudi Arabia and likes to butcher journalists.

toss1 5y ago

>>Even Russia has shown no intention of imposing an autocracy in Ukraine. Putin runs an established autocracy in Russia (in this case, basically a transnational criminal gang masquerading as a government). Political opponents are openly murdered and jailed on pretext. Putin himself said that Ukraine should not have a right to exist as a separate state, and that Ukrainians should be under Russian rule. He has already imposed that on Crimea and more. Russia has now invaded Ukraine specifically in order to impose autocracy in Ukraine. So how can you make such a statement? (Or should I just read you as one of the idiots who said on 23-Feb-2022 that Russia would never invade Ukraine?)

alkonaut 5y ago

> Russia has shown no intention of imposing an autocracy in Ukraine. Care to elaborate? What is it Russia is doing in Ukraine? To me it looks like Ukraine was given a choice of becoming a vassal state like Belarus or Russia would ensure this by force (or at least ensure it in parts of the country where it’s militarily feasible to do so). > The major threat to our democracies are capitalism In what sense? The correlation between capitalist and democratic countries is nearly perfect - so obviously the only countries that risk losing their democracy are capitalist states. The others never had any to lose.

MrMan 5y ago

reducing ukraine to rubble then taking the gas fields in the east is definitely better than imposing an autocracy! the Atlantic has sunk to trash level and its bad opinion pieces cranked out daily incite bad discussion here and give propagandists and reactionaries a lot of fuel

drewcoo 5y ago

Capitalism is at odds with democracy. Democracy is about representing all of us equally whereas capitalism is about some people getting more than others.

toss1 5y ago
No First, Capitalism is vastly more compatible with democracy than is Autocracy. Second, while the basis of Capitalism is a "Free Market(TM)", in reality, there is no free market - any market must be regulated in order to exist, whether the regulations are informal moral and ethical codes or formal sets of commercial laws and regulations that require large trucks to haul the full set (as in the US), and a set of courts to enforce them, or a combination of both. What you are indicating as the problem for capitalism in relation to democracy is actually a problem of some implementations of democracy, which is regulatory and legislative capture by corporate interests. THAT has a serious possibility to get out of hand, undermine democracy, and exacerbate inequality. No question, better tools are needed to reduce the influence of corporations in the democracy, but eliminating capitalism will not do that - what you will get is something like the old Soviet state, which sucked far worse than any capitalist state.
- pastacacioepepe 5y ago
  And yet, every time democracy votes out capitalism, fascism intervenes to protect the capital. The capital gladly renounces democracy in order to protect its interests. This happened literally every time. The only way you get rid of capitalism is with a revolution. They won't allow you to vote it away.
  - toss1 5y ago
    Yes, that often happens. Perhaps you should look at the history and governments of Norway, Sweden, and Finland. It was a very hard fight, with violence, but it was achieved. We can also notice that the Nordics aren't exactly hotbeds of growth, although there seems to be no shortage of innovation there. Yes, it is a damn hard balance to achieve, and harder to maintain. Yes, many of the capitalists will happily turn towards fascist-like tendencies. The key is to dial up the market regulation so that the excesses are curbed and to minimize (but not eliminate) inequality. Killing capitalism altogether by having the government own all the means of production is simply a recipe for disaster. IMO, the Nordic model is really the most sustainable.