8 ms·

That statement doesn't seem to make sense without context. Please elaborate.

kome 5y ago
not OP, but in general in Central Asia, Russian influence pervades every aspect of life, especially in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan - it feels like living in a Russian province... perhaps this is a bit less tue in Uzbekistan and Tajikistan (at least culturally, but still very strong link economically). There is a push of Central Asian people toward a form of de-colonial thinking and praxis, but in my humble opinion, it's another colonization with a different color - from the west.
- NicoJuicy 5y ago
  That's not true. What is true is that democracy mostly exists in the west currently. But it's not colonisation if a country becomes a democracy. That could happen without "the west". Ps. A sign of not a democracy is leaders in control for > 20 years.
- Isinlor 5y ago
  From Polish perspective I'm extremely grateful to my parents generation for starting the collapse of the Soviet sphere and very quick and decisive pivot to the west. Especially, when compared to Ukraine. Poland and Ukraine had the same size economy in 1991. Last year Polish economy was 3 times bigger than Ukraine. Personally, I can travel, study and work wherever I want in EU with zero trouble. I was born in Poland, studied in Belgium and Netherlands, work in Belgium and live in Finland. Russia is a terrible partner. Russia sympathizer in Ukraine brought destruction on that country from Russia. It's really tragic that Russia is obliterating people that considered themselves Russians living in Ukraine. There is zero comparison between modern western projects and Russia imperialism that did not change in the last 300 years.
  - alexklark 5y ago
    You mismatching 70 years of global efforts to destroy communist state that include giving “freedoms” and “foods” to former v4 to the actual freedom. As soon as, for some reason, Poland wont be on trade route with Russia, have no gas and oil from russia, no slave labor from Ukraine, no EU billions of aids for decades, the magic of capitalism became much weaker. An if your “elites” happen to “disagree” with EU on something more than gays and abortions, you will know what is real capitalism. And you have no jews to blame now, so you will blame Russians.
    - VincentEvans 5y ago
      Post-soviet sphere has plenty of examples of former SU-aligned countries that have since pivoted towards EU and have built democratic, free, and prosperous independent states, or are well on their way of building one. Even Ukraine was a recent example of being on such path, if it wasn’t for the malign efforts of, you guessed it, Russia. No state is perfect, and one can always find this or that to pick at, but most of democratic ones have not unleashed armies of state-employed goons on their own people to keep them from speaking up. You should work on your boot-licking addiction (and I am telling you that as a Soviet-born russian-speaking citizen of one of the former republics).
  - forum_ghost 5y ago
    This reads like "Poland is so great, I chose to live elsewhere" You could've studied and worked in Belgium/Netherlands/Finland and many other countries much richer than Poland even with the Iron Curtain in place. Millions of people did just that.
    - rasz 5y ago
      No, millions of Poles have not had the chance to "studied and worked in Belgium/Netherlands/Finland" while under Russian occupation. - You werent able to cross to the west unless on official Government delegation. - You werent able to cross the border _at all_ unless Government decided to let you. It was a political decision by a party committee. - Vacations abroad were only possible as an official reward from the Government, and never outside ~Comecon. - You couldnt even keep a passport in your own house. It was given to you before departure, and you had 7 days to return it after crossing back. You know who did work and study in the west? People who ran away https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_Miles_to_Heaven https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_Miles_to_Heaven https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ferry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ferry My uncle actually planned stowing away on a ferry to Norway in 1981, but got caught in the port and landed in penal company.
      - forum_ghost 5y ago
        Now do the same but for Poles with the wrong religion: Judaism.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- klausjensen 5y ago
  I do not understand how it is "colonization" that free people choose a more democratic, freedom- and market based route for their country - as opposed to an autocratic, Soviet-inspired style of rule. Large parts of Eastern Europe had a choice after the collapse of the Soviet Union and chose the way of the west/Europe, with all its challenges and shortcomings, because almost any system is better than living under the thumb of autocratic leadership. I hope one day, not that many years from now, I can once again visit a prospering Ukraine, which will be a member of the EU. If that is what the Ukranian people want, that is.
  - kome 5y ago
    > I do not understand how it is "colonization" that free people choose a more democratic, freedom- and market based route for their country - as opposed to an autocratic, Soviet-inspired style of rule. Yeah but wait: Russia today is very capitalist and market based. Yet very autocratic. The two can well go together. And that is the case of Kazakhstan as well. > Large parts of Eastern Europe had a choice after the collapse of the Soviet Union and chose the way of the west/Europe, with all its challenges and shortcomings, because almost any system is better than living under the thumb of autocratic leadership. No, they had no choice, because there was no alternative, not even in Russia. And today we are dealing with this lack of alternative. I think you are prone to believe that Putin is the Soviet Union 2.0: that's far from reality. Putin is the product of this lack of alternatives of the 90s.

kome 5y ago

not OP, but in general in Central Asia, Russian influence pervades every aspect of life, especially in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan - it feels like living in a Russian province... perhaps this is a bit less tue in Uzbekistan and Tajikistan (at least culturally, but still very strong link economically). There is a push of Central Asian people toward a form of de-colonial thinking and praxis, but in my humble opinion, it's another colonization with a different color - from the west.

NicoJuicy 5y ago
That's not true. What is true is that democracy mostly exists in the west currently. But it's not colonisation if a country becomes a democracy. That could happen without "the west". Ps. A sign of not a democracy is leaders in control for > 20 years.
Isinlor 5y ago
From Polish perspective I'm extremely grateful to my parents generation for starting the collapse of the Soviet sphere and very quick and decisive pivot to the west. Especially, when compared to Ukraine. Poland and Ukraine had the same size economy in 1991. Last year Polish economy was 3 times bigger than Ukraine. Personally, I can travel, study and work wherever I want in EU with zero trouble. I was born in Poland, studied in Belgium and Netherlands, work in Belgium and live in Finland. Russia is a terrible partner. Russia sympathizer in Ukraine brought destruction on that country from Russia. It's really tragic that Russia is obliterating people that considered themselves Russians living in Ukraine. There is zero comparison between modern western projects and Russia imperialism that did not change in the last 300 years.
- alexklark 5y ago
  You mismatching 70 years of global efforts to destroy communist state that include giving “freedoms” and “foods” to former v4 to the actual freedom. As soon as, for some reason, Poland wont be on trade route with Russia, have no gas and oil from russia, no slave labor from Ukraine, no EU billions of aids for decades, the magic of capitalism became much weaker. An if your “elites” happen to “disagree” with EU on something more than gays and abortions, you will know what is real capitalism. And you have no jews to blame now, so you will blame Russians.
  - VincentEvans 5y ago
    Post-soviet sphere has plenty of examples of former SU-aligned countries that have since pivoted towards EU and have built democratic, free, and prosperous independent states, or are well on their way of building one. Even Ukraine was a recent example of being on such path, if it wasn’t for the malign efforts of, you guessed it, Russia. No state is perfect, and one can always find this or that to pick at, but most of democratic ones have not unleashed armies of state-employed goons on their own people to keep them from speaking up. You should work on your boot-licking addiction (and I am telling you that as a Soviet-born russian-speaking citizen of one of the former republics).
- forum_ghost 5y ago
  This reads like "Poland is so great, I chose to live elsewhere" You could've studied and worked in Belgium/Netherlands/Finland and many other countries much richer than Poland even with the Iron Curtain in place. Millions of people did just that.
  - rasz 5y ago
    No, millions of Poles have not had the chance to "studied and worked in Belgium/Netherlands/Finland" while under Russian occupation. - You werent able to cross to the west unless on official Government delegation. - You werent able to cross the border _at all_ unless Government decided to let you. It was a political decision by a party committee. - Vacations abroad were only possible as an official reward from the Government, and never outside ~Comecon. - You couldnt even keep a passport in your own house. It was given to you before departure, and you had 7 days to return it after crossing back. You know who did work and study in the west? People who ran away https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_Miles_to_Heaven https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_Miles_to_Heaven https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ferry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ferry My uncle actually planned stowing away on a ferry to Norway in 1981, but got caught in the port and landed in penal company.
    - forum_ghost 5y ago
      Now do the same but for Poles with the wrong religion: Judaism.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
klausjensen 5y ago
I do not understand how it is "colonization" that free people choose a more democratic, freedom- and market based route for their country - as opposed to an autocratic, Soviet-inspired style of rule. Large parts of Eastern Europe had a choice after the collapse of the Soviet Union and chose the way of the west/Europe, with all its challenges and shortcomings, because almost any system is better than living under the thumb of autocratic leadership. I hope one day, not that many years from now, I can once again visit a prospering Ukraine, which will be a member of the EU. If that is what the Ukranian people want, that is.
- kome 5y ago
  > I do not understand how it is "colonization" that free people choose a more democratic, freedom- and market based route for their country - as opposed to an autocratic, Soviet-inspired style of rule. Yeah but wait: Russia today is very capitalist and market based. Yet very autocratic. The two can well go together. And that is the case of Kazakhstan as well. > Large parts of Eastern Europe had a choice after the collapse of the Soviet Union and chose the way of the west/Europe, with all its challenges and shortcomings, because almost any system is better than living under the thumb of autocratic leadership. No, they had no choice, because there was no alternative, not even in Russia. And today we are dealing with this lack of alternative. I think you are prone to believe that Putin is the Soviet Union 2.0: that's far from reality. Putin is the product of this lack of alternatives of the 90s.