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From Germany it is closer to Kiew than to Rome and 5k refugees arrive every day in Berlin, so it seems very rational that this war is featuring as big as it is.

by oezi 5y ago

From Germany it is closer to Kiew than to Rome and 5k refugees arrive every day in Berlin, so it seems very rational that this war is featuring as big as it is. The big question is why we aren't capable of acting together to stop this war (and the others you are mentioned) without falling in the imperialist trap that Afghanistan was for the last 20 years. How can we stop the murdering Russian/Saudi/Talian regimes if their people can't seem to find the power to do it themselves? Edit: lol, messed up the distances. Kiew to Berlin is pretty much Rome to Berlin. Anyway, the point was: this war is too damn close to ignore. (Covid certainly isn't over when you look at the statistics in Europe btw)

rad_gruchalski 5y ago
> From Germany it is closer to Kiew than to Rome It’s not. It’s 950km from Munich to Rome. Munich to Kiev is 1700km and Dresden to Kiev is still 1500km+.
fuoqi 5y ago
>From Germany it is closer to Kiew than to Rome False. It's ~1210 km from Berlin to Kiev and it's 1180 km from Berlin to Rome. If we are to take closest points between territories, the difference becomes much bigger. Also it's ~1000 km from Berlin to Belgrad and I do not remember a similar outcry during the NATO invasion. >How can we stop the murdering Russian/Saudi/Talian regimes if their people can't seem to find the power to do it themselves? Right after the US and EU citizens will be able to stop numerous invasions by their governments with much higher death tolls.
- ailef 5y ago
  A couple of days ago there was a similar discussion on Italian television and one of the politicians there was asking questions similar to yours. Incredibly enough, the TV host interrupted him and said "but they (the Ukraininans) are like us!". They are like us! "They are European brothers", he added. I don't understand how you have the courage to say something like this on TV: if you don't have a better argument keep your mouth shut. He immediately tried to retract it, saying that he was referring to geographical distance. Of course, when he was made aware that we also bombed Libya, which is way closer to Italy than Ukraine is, he didn't know what to say then.
- glogla 5y ago
  Just to add context to this "fuoqi" account. > the NATO invasion Sometimes, just tiny wording shows beautifully where a person is coming from. And yep, this is Serbian account. Serbians are very proud of their war crimes and consider being stopped while doing genocide a great slight - they are also allies of Russia.
- baq 5y ago
  Yeah, Serbia doesn’t have gas to hold the west hostage. Everything else is the same or worse: Putin is Miloschevitch with nukes.
csydas 5y ago
> How can we stop the murdering Russian/Saudi/Talian regimes if their people can't seem to find the power to do it themselves? Well first by ensuring there are channels and means for them to get out of the news cycle that keeps so many believing that everything is a-okay. The massive exit from Russia for entities not covered by sanctions and so many of the senseless actions(TikTok dance to stop the war, banning Russian cats from shows, freedom fries 2.0 with Moscow mule), this basically has only strengthened the power of the news cycle in Russia, made it more credible that there is a conspiracy against Russians. Many Russians that did leave to neighboring countries survive only because of the Mir payment network (Russia's card payment system), those within Russia can't even circumvent the news cycle because they can't get access to VPN services to bypass restrictions. There are a lot of people who want change in Russia and they need to convince those stuck in the news cycle. But now they can't and increasingly, it looks like the Russian systems support them through this event and the Russian systems alone. The claimed intent is to punish the government and send a message; all it's done is punish ordinary people who do protest and do work to do exactly what those behind the sanction actions want. The world is awash in propaganda and feel good moves, and ultimately it just harms the goal of stoppinh such behavior by removing the only power they had to do so in the first place. I dont think you meant it as a judgement, but try to imagine being in the position where you're expected to enact change, and every resource you'd usually use to do so is taken from you because "you need to learn a lesson". What are people supposed to do?
XorNot 5y ago
> The big question is why we aren't capable of acting together to stop this war Nuclear weapons. It's nuclear weapons. The answer to every "why is..." question here is 1,588 ready to deploy nuclear weapons and 2,889 in reserve.

by oezi 5y ago

rad_gruchalski 5y ago

> From Germany it is closer to Kiew than to Rome It’s not. It’s 950km from Munich to Rome. Munich to Kiev is 1700km and Dresden to Kiev is still 1500km+.

fuoqi 5y ago

>From Germany it is closer to Kiew than to Rome False. It's ~1210 km from Berlin to Kiev and it's 1180 km from Berlin to Rome. If we are to take closest points between territories, the difference becomes much bigger. Also it's ~1000 km from Berlin to Belgrad and I do not remember a similar outcry during the NATO invasion. >How can we stop the murdering Russian/Saudi/Talian regimes if their people can't seem to find the power to do it themselves? Right after the US and EU citizens will be able to stop numerous invasions by their governments with much higher death tolls.

ailef 5y ago
A couple of days ago there was a similar discussion on Italian television and one of the politicians there was asking questions similar to yours. Incredibly enough, the TV host interrupted him and said "but they (the Ukraininans) are like us!". They are like us! "They are European brothers", he added. I don't understand how you have the courage to say something like this on TV: if you don't have a better argument keep your mouth shut. He immediately tried to retract it, saying that he was referring to geographical distance. Of course, when he was made aware that we also bombed Libya, which is way closer to Italy than Ukraine is, he didn't know what to say then.
glogla 5y ago
Just to add context to this "fuoqi" account. > the NATO invasion Sometimes, just tiny wording shows beautifully where a person is coming from. And yep, this is Serbian account. Serbians are very proud of their war crimes and consider being stopped while doing genocide a great slight - they are also allies of Russia.
baq 5y ago
Yeah, Serbia doesn’t have gas to hold the west hostage. Everything else is the same or worse: Putin is Miloschevitch with nukes.

csydas 5y ago

> How can we stop the murdering Russian/Saudi/Talian regimes if their people can't seem to find the power to do it themselves? Well first by ensuring there are channels and means for them to get out of the news cycle that keeps so many believing that everything is a-okay. The massive exit from Russia for entities not covered by sanctions and so many of the senseless actions(TikTok dance to stop the war, banning Russian cats from shows, freedom fries 2.0 with Moscow mule), this basically has only strengthened the power of the news cycle in Russia, made it more credible that there is a conspiracy against Russians. Many Russians that did leave to neighboring countries survive only because of the Mir payment network (Russia's card payment system), those within Russia can't even circumvent the news cycle because they can't get access to VPN services to bypass restrictions. There are a lot of people who want change in Russia and they need to convince those stuck in the news cycle. But now they can't and increasingly, it looks like the Russian systems support them through this event and the Russian systems alone. The claimed intent is to punish the government and send a message; all it's done is punish ordinary people who do protest and do work to do exactly what those behind the sanction actions want. The world is awash in propaganda and feel good moves, and ultimately it just harms the goal of stoppinh such behavior by removing the only power they had to do so in the first place. I dont think you meant it as a judgement, but try to imagine being in the position where you're expected to enact change, and every resource you'd usually use to do so is taken from you because "you need to learn a lesson". What are people supposed to do?

XorNot 5y ago

> The big question is why we aren't capable of acting together to stop this war Nuclear weapons. It's nuclear weapons. The answer to every "why is..." question here is 1,588 ready to deploy nuclear weapons and 2,889 in reserve.