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And you go straight to fulfill OPs prophecy: "It seems like anti-union proponents will remind you of the bad times when unions had too much power," BTW, the wa

by Epa095 5y ago

And you go straight to fulfill OPs prophecy: "It seems like anti-union proponents will remind you of the bad times when unions had too much power," BTW, the way you characterise unions are interesting. Very different from how they work here in Northern Europe. I wonder if American unions really are as corrupt and screwed up as the Internet makes them sound.

rufus_foreman 5y ago
It's not a matter of a union having too much power, it's a matter of why would a union have any power over me whatsoever? I didn't elect a union. If I want to work for a company and they want to hire me, how does a union have the power to tell me I can't work for them and the company can't hire me?
- black_puppydog 5y ago
  That's not my understanding, no. IIRC there was specific legislation that a union has to represent every worker in the shop, and that legislation was specifically introduced to misalign the incentives between workers and unions.
- CapmCrackaWaka 5y ago
  The employees at this Amazon warehouse just _did_ elect to unionize. This is the free market at work. If Employers can't be trusted to treat their employees fairly, or if their employees can't earn a living wage, and if the employee's government is doing nothing to help (raising minimum wage), then who is to say the employees can't band together and demand higher pay? Even if unions never actually materialize, just the _threat_ of a union should be enough to wake up company leadership and make them say "oh shit, maybe we should treat our employees better". I understand unions have caused problems in the past. They've caused huge problems, and have had to be scaled back. But that's exactly the balance I'm talking about. We're just swinging on the pendulum towards workers rights at this time. I'm 100% sure if more unions spring up, we'll be hearing horror stories about work stoppages and companies shutting down product lines. But we hear plenty of horror stories about companies mistreating employees right now. We're just riding the free market pendulum. It doesn't exactly get me out of my seat to think that Amazon might have to make a little less profit, or pay their executives $50 million less next year, or hell, even that prices might rise a little, if it means the free market is actually at work. In an ideal world the pendulum would stop swinging, and we would be in the middle forever. That should theoretically be the job of our government. But I don't see that happening any time soon.

by Epa095 5y ago

rufus_foreman 5y ago

It's not a matter of a union having too much power, it's a matter of why would a union have any power over me whatsoever? I didn't elect a union. If I want to work for a company and they want to hire me, how does a union have the power to tell me I can't work for them and the company can't hire me?

black_puppydog 5y ago
That's not my understanding, no. IIRC there was specific legislation that a union has to represent every worker in the shop, and that legislation was specifically introduced to misalign the incentives between workers and unions.
CapmCrackaWaka 5y ago
The employees at this Amazon warehouse just _did_ elect to unionize. This is the free market at work. If Employers can't be trusted to treat their employees fairly, or if their employees can't earn a living wage, and if the employee's government is doing nothing to help (raising minimum wage), then who is to say the employees can't band together and demand higher pay? Even if unions never actually materialize, just the _threat_ of a union should be enough to wake up company leadership and make them say "oh shit, maybe we should treat our employees better". I understand unions have caused problems in the past. They've caused huge problems, and have had to be scaled back. But that's exactly the balance I'm talking about. We're just swinging on the pendulum towards workers rights at this time. I'm 100% sure if more unions spring up, we'll be hearing horror stories about work stoppages and companies shutting down product lines. But we hear plenty of horror stories about companies mistreating employees right now. We're just riding the free market pendulum. It doesn't exactly get me out of my seat to think that Amazon might have to make a little less profit, or pay their executives $50 million less next year, or hell, even that prices might rise a little, if it means the free market is actually at work. In an ideal world the pendulum would stop swinging, and we would be in the middle forever. That should theoretically be the job of our government. But I don't see that happening any time soon.