3 ms·

What are startup cities for? (2021)

36 points by luu 5y ago

_8j50 5y ago
I hope any new city has good bike lanes.
- jppope 5y ago
  +1
Apocryphon 5y ago
We only have 55 years to build Night City.
- wsinks 5y ago
  Heh, according to the lore, we only have -28 years, since Richard Night built it in 1994. Not sure we _need_ Night City in Northern California though. I'm a huge fan of the fictional Cyberpunk world though. :) https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Night_City https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Night_City
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    According to the lore, it's built exactly half-way between San Francisco and Los Angeles. So at Morro Bay, near San Luis Obispo. The impracticality of going along the coast as opposed to going down I-5 aside, it would be interesting if there was a third major coastal metropolitan area like that (never mind the existence of San Diego!)
RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y ago
I feel they are 20-30 years too late. It seems like the winds have shifted. In the late 1990's to early 2000's, it really did seem like human conflict was winding down and all the divisions/ideologies were slowly being subjected to "hey, let's all get along together and make a lot of money". You saw that with the EU, with China, NAFTA, etc. After the 2008 crash and with covid, it seems things are changing. People are no longer willing to let go of ideology just to make money. Nationalism is returning. Religious fundamentalism is returning (see Trump, Modi, Erdogan, Orban). Hong Kong was the ultimate "startup city" with a huge amount of autonomy, but that is going away, as China asserts control. My guess is that in this current environment, startup cities will breed a lot of resentment in the surrounding areas and serve as easy scapegoats (see for example the Blue cities in Red states where there is a lot of conflict about governance and who has prerogative).
- ipaddr 5y ago
  Your timeline includes 911.
gigaflop 5y ago
Some big problems I see with big new cityscape ideas is the 'legacy support' and 'network effect'. We can play SimCity all we want, but for the ideas to make an impact, they need to be implemented. 'Legacy support' is figuring out how to deal with the non-blank canvas you're starting from, if you're starting with a populated area. Sewer lines are already dug, buildings exist, people live there, etc, and now you need to solve those problems, too. When's the last time a bunch of people in lower-income housing were happy to be forcefully relocated? Because you're not going to be buying land in high-income areas(due to cost, Nimbys, and probably being in the suburbs), and those people need to live somewhere while the probably-union contractors go over on time and budget for the project. 'Network effect' is getting people to live at your site. Why is your cityscape more attractive than what someone else already lives in? And, remember that the people most likely to be able to afford to live in your new development may not end up living there full-time, since the first round of buying/leasing will favor those who have a bigger pile of cash. Will those people be a net positive to the community, or will they treat it as a vacation home?

36 points by luu 5y ago

_8j50 5y ago

I hope any new city has good bike lanes.

jppope 5y ago
+1

Apocryphon 5y ago

We only have 55 years to build Night City.

wsinks 5y ago
Heh, according to the lore, we only have -28 years, since Richard Night built it in 1994. Not sure we _need_ Night City in Northern California though. I'm a huge fan of the fictional Cyberpunk world though. :) https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Night_City https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Night_City
- Apocryphon 5y ago
  According to the lore, it's built exactly half-way between San Francisco and Los Angeles. So at Morro Bay, near San Luis Obispo. The impracticality of going along the coast as opposed to going down I-5 aside, it would be interesting if there was a third major coastal metropolitan area like that (never mind the existence of San Diego!)

RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y ago

I feel they are 20-30 years too late. It seems like the winds have shifted. In the late 1990's to early 2000's, it really did seem like human conflict was winding down and all the divisions/ideologies were slowly being subjected to "hey, let's all get along together and make a lot of money". You saw that with the EU, with China, NAFTA, etc. After the 2008 crash and with covid, it seems things are changing. People are no longer willing to let go of ideology just to make money. Nationalism is returning. Religious fundamentalism is returning (see Trump, Modi, Erdogan, Orban). Hong Kong was the ultimate "startup city" with a huge amount of autonomy, but that is going away, as China asserts control. My guess is that in this current environment, startup cities will breed a lot of resentment in the surrounding areas and serve as easy scapegoats (see for example the Blue cities in Red states where there is a lot of conflict about governance and who has prerogative).

ipaddr 5y ago
Your timeline includes 911.

gigaflop 5y ago

Some big problems I see with big new cityscape ideas is the 'legacy support' and 'network effect'. We can play SimCity all we want, but for the ideas to make an impact, they need to be implemented. 'Legacy support' is figuring out how to deal with the non-blank canvas you're starting from, if you're starting with a populated area. Sewer lines are already dug, buildings exist, people live there, etc, and now you need to solve those problems, too. When's the last time a bunch of people in lower-income housing were happy to be forcefully relocated? Because you're not going to be buying land in high-income areas(due to cost, Nimbys, and probably being in the suburbs), and those people need to live somewhere while the probably-union contractors go over on time and budget for the project. 'Network effect' is getting people to live at your site. Why is your cityscape more attractive than what someone else already lives in? And, remember that the people most likely to be able to afford to live in your new development may not end up living there full-time, since the first round of buying/leasing will favor those who have a bigger pile of cash. Will those people be a net positive to the community, or will they treat it as a vacation home?