5 ms·

You're basically saying you think depression/anxiety/ADHD are disorders but autism is "part of who you are". Is a personality change indicative of whether somet

You're basically saying you think depression/anxiety/ADHD are disorders but autism is "part of who you are". Is a personality change indicative of whether something is a disorder or not? Is it only when the change is perceived to negative?

throwaway684936 5y ago
Autism shapes personality and worldview, meaning it shapes the person and their sense of self. It doesn't cause suffering in a vacuum the same way other disorders do. The biggest "issues" attributed to autism come from lack of accomodations and the tendency to falsely attribute comorbidities as being part of autism. A huge difference between autism and the other listed things is that autism is not (and never will be) legitimately treatable, while depression, anxiety, and ADHD are treatable and have been for a long time. Amphetamine targets dopamine dysregulation and it's highly effective at improving quality of life. Autism has no equivalent. No drug has ever shown efficacy in improving the quality of life of autistic people, nor has any therapy. They've all been damaging, and the mainstream autism junk-science treatment today is ineffective according to meta-analyses[1], is based on gay conversion therapy, has been shown to cause PTSD[2]. Treating autism stops making sense (and thinking of it as important to identity starts making sense) when you realize that having an autistic brain means using a different but equally-effective social model[3], mode of thinking, and algorithms for processing information, that in many cases has tangible advantages. [1] https://therapistndc.org/aba-is-not-effective-so-says-the-latest-report-from-the-department-of-defense/ https://therapistndc.org/aba-is-not-effective-so-says-the-la... [2] https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/AIA-08-2017-0016/full/html https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/AIA-08-2... [3] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2020.586171/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2020.5861...
- nebulous_two 4y ago
  Thank you for taking the time to explain this to me.
- checker659 5y ago
  Cancer is treatable, doesn’t mean said treatment is effective. Same with ADHD. We’re still in the dark ages.
  - throwaway684936 5y ago
    I agree completely (as someone with ADHD). But, compared to how far behind other psychiatric treatments are... * Antidepressants are barely better than placebo. * Benzos are a short-term bandaid, best reserved for panic attacks. * Antipsychotics have truly horrifying permanent side effects. Amphetamines are a borderline miracle. Again, comparatively. Nothing else available today comes close in effectiveness at treating any psychiatric disorder. They definitely have their shortcomings, but for people with ADHD they're such a huge boost to quality of life and lead to better overall life outcomes. There's a chance pharmacological depression treatment will catch up to where ADHD is at if/when ketamine become commonly available. Same with PTSD and MDMA. The future of anxiety treatment looks a bit more bleak... but there's experimental stuff out there with HDAC inhibitors and I think some other stuff causing fear extinction.
    - whatshisface 5y ago
      Antidepressants are barely better than placebo on average but are, for some people or so I've heard, miracles.
      - rincebrain 5y ago
        Quite. On average, the acceptable "separated from placebo" margin doesn't have to be that high, but the range of effect is absolutely enormous, even within close relatives. Antidepressants that did nothing positive or negative for me or some family members were either extremely helpful or extremely harmful to other family members of mine. (Almost never vice-versa; my biochemistry appears to be quite stubborn about responding to a great many classes of treatment, well _or_ poorly, but at least one medication just made me feel completely numb while being extremely helpful to another relative.) It can also be a weird multidimensional variable in ways many people don't expect - one medication I'm currently taking for depression is 4 pills twice a day (very short half-life), because I was gradually tapering it up. We tried switching to the same manufacturer's single pill that was 4x the dose, twice a day, and immediately I started feeling extremely nauseous whenever in a moving vehicle, which has never happened before. Switch back, problem goes away. (I know the above sort of outcome is not exclusive to mental health medications, but in my personal experience, I've never had any other medication type vary in outcome based on whether they gave me one or multiple pills adding to the same dosage.)

throwaway684936 5y ago

Autism shapes personality and worldview, meaning it shapes the person and their sense of self. It doesn't cause suffering in a vacuum the same way other disorders do. The biggest "issues" attributed to autism come from lack of accomodations and the tendency to falsely attribute comorbidities as being part of autism. A huge difference between autism and the other listed things is that autism is not (and never will be) legitimately treatable, while depression, anxiety, and ADHD are treatable and have been for a long time. Amphetamine targets dopamine dysregulation and it's highly effective at improving quality of life. Autism has no equivalent. No drug has ever shown efficacy in improving the quality of life of autistic people, nor has any therapy. They've all been damaging, and the mainstream autism junk-science treatment today is ineffective according to meta-analyses[1], is based on gay conversion therapy, has been shown to cause PTSD[2]. Treating autism stops making sense (and thinking of it as important to identity starts making sense) when you realize that having an autistic brain means using a different but equally-effective social model[3], mode of thinking, and algorithms for processing information, that in many cases has tangible advantages. [1] https://therapistndc.org/aba-is-not-effective-so-says-the-latest-report-from-the-department-of-defense/ https://therapistndc.org/aba-is-not-effective-so-says-the-la... [2] https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/AIA-08-2017-0016/full/html https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/AIA-08-2... [3] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2020.586171/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2020.5861...

nebulous_two 4y ago
Thank you for taking the time to explain this to me.
checker659 5y ago
Cancer is treatable, doesn’t mean said treatment is effective. Same with ADHD. We’re still in the dark ages.
- throwaway684936 5y ago
  I agree completely (as someone with ADHD). But, compared to how far behind other psychiatric treatments are... * Antidepressants are barely better than placebo. * Benzos are a short-term bandaid, best reserved for panic attacks. * Antipsychotics have truly horrifying permanent side effects. Amphetamines are a borderline miracle. Again, comparatively. Nothing else available today comes close in effectiveness at treating any psychiatric disorder. They definitely have their shortcomings, but for people with ADHD they're such a huge boost to quality of life and lead to better overall life outcomes. There's a chance pharmacological depression treatment will catch up to where ADHD is at if/when ketamine become commonly available. Same with PTSD and MDMA. The future of anxiety treatment looks a bit more bleak... but there's experimental stuff out there with HDAC inhibitors and I think some other stuff causing fear extinction.
  - whatshisface 5y ago
    Antidepressants are barely better than placebo on average but are, for some people or so I've heard, miracles.
    - rincebrain 5y ago
      Quite. On average, the acceptable "separated from placebo" margin doesn't have to be that high, but the range of effect is absolutely enormous, even within close relatives. Antidepressants that did nothing positive or negative for me or some family members were either extremely helpful or extremely harmful to other family members of mine. (Almost never vice-versa; my biochemistry appears to be quite stubborn about responding to a great many classes of treatment, well _or_ poorly, but at least one medication just made me feel completely numb while being extremely helpful to another relative.) It can also be a weird multidimensional variable in ways many people don't expect - one medication I'm currently taking for depression is 4 pills twice a day (very short half-life), because I was gradually tapering it up. We tried switching to the same manufacturer's single pill that was 4x the dose, twice a day, and immediately I started feeling extremely nauseous whenever in a moving vehicle, which has never happened before. Switch back, problem goes away. (I know the above sort of outcome is not exclusive to mental health medications, but in my personal experience, I've never had any other medication type vary in outcome based on whether they gave me one or multiple pills adding to the same dosage.)