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Fuck you RMS. I have been and still am a staunch believer in open source, but when I read comments like this from the person who's motto once was that everybody

Fuck you RMS. I have been and still am a staunch believer in open source, but when I read comments like this from the person who's motto once was that everybody writing software should contribute the source back to the community, not because it delivers better software (due to the more eyeballs resulting in fewer bugs), but because it results in moving software forward quickly by virtue of helping each other out, I agree with the OP, it's time for a change. Let me tell you something, free software or not, it was Steve Jobs, who told us what forward direction for software actually means, first by making GUI mainstream, then by making capacitive touch mainstream, and lastly by defining what a tablet form factor should and should not be. If you think Steve's products hamper your freedom, I can argue the exact opposite, it was Steve who taught us ways to make technology more accessible by making groundbreaking innovations in user interfaces, which enables the non geeks of the world to use computers in the first place, I am pretty sure those users will feel more trapped in the command line interface that you envisioned for them, than they feel by not having access to the source of the painting app they have fun playing with on their ipad. So if you cannot come out the frog hole that you have created for yourself, and give credit where it's due, then maybe you should shut the fuck up.

DanBC 15y ago
>If you think Steve's products hamper your freedom Try and explain how to boot a MacBookPro from USB stick to someone, and compare that to booting almost any other computer. Or explain how to dual boot a Mac with OSX and Linux, vs anything else with Windows and Linux.
- astrodust 15y ago
  Try and explain how to restore a MacBook from back-ups over the phone to a frantic parent who's just lost their hard drive. I did that. It took two minutes. It worked flawlessly. Sometimes to gain more command over your technology you have to give up some theoretical freedom, but that's freedom you'd never have been able to exercise. An F-16 pilot would find the controls in a typical car so disappointing. Where's the lever to adjust the fuel/air mixture? The GPS waypoints? The brake bias dial? The air pressure indicator? The temperature of the tires? All of these things are theoretically important to driving, but they're not of any concern to someone simply trying to get from point A to point B. That's all most people using computers are trying to do.
  - DanBC 15y ago
    Sure, there are a lot of important benefits to having firm design choices made by someone, rather than just not ever making the decision and cramming a million options into a multi-tab options dialog (or a config file). I own (and use every day) a mac. I've recommend mac to everyone I know, fo rthe reasons you mention. But you can't have it both ways - not having those options available means you're not as free to use your machine as you are with other OSs. Trivial eg: OS X windowing behaves a certain way. You want to maximise a window? You can't, unless you know some secret trick. You want to tile windows? You can't, unless you install some 3rd party software. These aren't power-user functions.
    - astrodust 15y ago
      Maximizing windows a certain way and tiling windows is something only very few people need. You're presuming they're problems because you have expectations that the software behaves in ways that it does not. People without any expectations do not have the same problems. So many technical people see the "App Store" as something that limits choice. Consumers see it as freedom, since they are free to install anything they find without fear that it will wreck their system or actually be a trojan. Just as you'd see using a wheel-chair as something that's severely limiting, the same thing for someone with no legs it's freedom to get around independently. What Apple's products tend to do is trade one kind of freedom for another. They don't eliminate or reduce freedom, they transform the essential nature of it. Some people might be justified in complaining about how it limits the freedom they need, but they're probably trying to use a product for a purpose it was not intended for.
      - prodigal_erik 15y ago
        > trying to use a product for a purpose it was not intended for Good for them. Using things in novel unanticipated ways is toolmaking, quite literally what makes us human. I suspect people who surround themselves with appliances which resist tinkering are harming themselves through learned helplessness.
        15y ago
- sharmajai 15y ago
  I have heard of many googlers, who use Ubuntu on their macbooks. Besides that is an ability which is not a prerequisite for majority of the computer users. Look I am a Ubuntu (not on a macbook though) user myself, and being a developer love the freedom that it provides, but we have to remember that everybody's requirement of freedom is different, for vast majority of the users freedom means, freedom from spending hours to tinker with something to make it work, things should just work for them, and Steve provided that kind of freedom.
  - Aga 15y ago
    These kind of bargain sale definitions of the great word "freedom" we are having in these discussions make me feel genuinely sad. Is freedom really something that can be taken this light? Can we really compare freedom to "do what ever you like" to freedom(?) to "not have to spend hours to tinker with something to make it work?"
- nknight 15y ago
  > Try and explain how to boot a MacBookPro from USB stick to someone You hold down the Option key while booting. > Or explain how to dual boot a Mac with OSX and Linux Install rEFIt (comes in a nice, standard OS X installer package), use the nice GUI Bootcamp or Disk Utility apps to make a partition, insert the Linux CD, reboot while holding down C. If you're incapable of following these instructions, I seriously doubt you can manage to boot from a USB stick or dual-boot Windows and Linux on any typical PC.
  - DanBC 15y ago
    Holding down option while booting does not work for USB media on MacBook Pro. (But sure, this will work for optical media.) You've just managed to give the wrong information to someone, and call them stupid at the same time.
    - nknight 15y ago
      http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1948 http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1948 Where's the problem?
      - DanBC 15y ago
        Did you read the page you posted? The external USB device:- >Contains an installation of Mac OS X 10.4.5 or later, or Mac OS X 10.5 or later, which is compatible with (or shipped with) the Mac that the USB device is connected to. That's not Linux. Linux will not work with that method. Don't take my word for it; try it yourself, or ask Apple, or have a quick search of the "support" communities. See, for an example, this question on stack exchange: (http://superuser.com/q/27794/93703 http://superuser.com/q/27794/93703) Here are some people having trouble, and not getting much help (but lousy "support" is common to many distributions) - (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1266303?start=0&tstart=0 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1266303?start=0&tst...) (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2579995?start=0&tstart=0 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2579995?start=0&tst...) (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1723157?start=0&tstart=0 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1723157?start=0&tst...) You've still failed to understand the problem, and to provide a working fix.

DanBC 15y ago

>If you think Steve's products hamper your freedom Try and explain how to boot a MacBookPro from USB stick to someone, and compare that to booting almost any other computer. Or explain how to dual boot a Mac with OSX and Linux, vs anything else with Windows and Linux.

astrodust 15y ago
Try and explain how to restore a MacBook from back-ups over the phone to a frantic parent who's just lost their hard drive. I did that. It took two minutes. It worked flawlessly. Sometimes to gain more command over your technology you have to give up some theoretical freedom, but that's freedom you'd never have been able to exercise. An F-16 pilot would find the controls in a typical car so disappointing. Where's the lever to adjust the fuel/air mixture? The GPS waypoints? The brake bias dial? The air pressure indicator? The temperature of the tires? All of these things are theoretically important to driving, but they're not of any concern to someone simply trying to get from point A to point B. That's all most people using computers are trying to do.
- DanBC 15y ago
  Sure, there are a lot of important benefits to having firm design choices made by someone, rather than just not ever making the decision and cramming a million options into a multi-tab options dialog (or a config file). I own (and use every day) a mac. I've recommend mac to everyone I know, fo rthe reasons you mention. But you can't have it both ways - not having those options available means you're not as free to use your machine as you are with other OSs. Trivial eg: OS X windowing behaves a certain way. You want to maximise a window? You can't, unless you know some secret trick. You want to tile windows? You can't, unless you install some 3rd party software. These aren't power-user functions.
  - astrodust 15y ago
    Maximizing windows a certain way and tiling windows is something only very few people need. You're presuming they're problems because you have expectations that the software behaves in ways that it does not. People without any expectations do not have the same problems. So many technical people see the "App Store" as something that limits choice. Consumers see it as freedom, since they are free to install anything they find without fear that it will wreck their system or actually be a trojan. Just as you'd see using a wheel-chair as something that's severely limiting, the same thing for someone with no legs it's freedom to get around independently. What Apple's products tend to do is trade one kind of freedom for another. They don't eliminate or reduce freedom, they transform the essential nature of it. Some people might be justified in complaining about how it limits the freedom they need, but they're probably trying to use a product for a purpose it was not intended for.
    - prodigal_erik 15y ago
      > trying to use a product for a purpose it was not intended for Good for them. Using things in novel unanticipated ways is toolmaking, quite literally what makes us human. I suspect people who surround themselves with appliances which resist tinkering are harming themselves through learned helplessness.
      - 15y ago
sharmajai 15y ago
I have heard of many googlers, who use Ubuntu on their macbooks. Besides that is an ability which is not a prerequisite for majority of the computer users. Look I am a Ubuntu (not on a macbook though) user myself, and being a developer love the freedom that it provides, but we have to remember that everybody's requirement of freedom is different, for vast majority of the users freedom means, freedom from spending hours to tinker with something to make it work, things should just work for them, and Steve provided that kind of freedom.
- Aga 15y ago
  These kind of bargain sale definitions of the great word "freedom" we are having in these discussions make me feel genuinely sad. Is freedom really something that can be taken this light? Can we really compare freedom to "do what ever you like" to freedom(?) to "not have to spend hours to tinker with something to make it work?"
nknight 15y ago
> Try and explain how to boot a MacBookPro from USB stick to someone You hold down the Option key while booting. > Or explain how to dual boot a Mac with OSX and Linux Install rEFIt (comes in a nice, standard OS X installer package), use the nice GUI Bootcamp or Disk Utility apps to make a partition, insert the Linux CD, reboot while holding down C. If you're incapable of following these instructions, I seriously doubt you can manage to boot from a USB stick or dual-boot Windows and Linux on any typical PC.
- DanBC 15y ago
  Holding down option while booting does not work for USB media on MacBook Pro. (But sure, this will work for optical media.) You've just managed to give the wrong information to someone, and call them stupid at the same time.
  - nknight 15y ago
    http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1948 http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1948 Where's the problem?
    - DanBC 15y ago
      Did you read the page you posted? The external USB device:- >Contains an installation of Mac OS X 10.4.5 or later, or Mac OS X 10.5 or later, which is compatible with (or shipped with) the Mac that the USB device is connected to. That's not Linux. Linux will not work with that method. Don't take my word for it; try it yourself, or ask Apple, or have a quick search of the "support" communities. See, for an example, this question on stack exchange: (http://superuser.com/q/27794/93703 http://superuser.com/q/27794/93703) Here are some people having trouble, and not getting much help (but lousy "support" is common to many distributions) - (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1266303?start=0&tstart=0 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1266303?start=0&tst...) (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2579995?start=0&tstart=0 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2579995?start=0&tst...) (https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1723157?start=0&tstart=0 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1723157?start=0&tst...) You've still failed to understand the problem, and to provide a working fix.