6 ms·

> I want the government out of my life as much as possible unless it has to do with your education, gender identity, sexual preference, religion, voting, or wo

> I want the government out of my life as much as possible unless it has to do with your education, gender identity, sexual preference, religion, voting, or women's rights, I assume

s1artibartfast 5y ago
This is an uncharitable reading. Almost no one would answer that they want the government to impose positions over their personal views on those topics
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  Except it's accurate. Most conservatives are fair-weather individualists who only care about "liberty" in loose terms as long as the liberty that they believe is being affected is their own. We had to drag conservatives kicking and screaming over the past 30 years to allow gays to have the right to marry and openly serve in the military, just like we had to drag them kicking and screaming 60 years ago to allow minorities the right to vote, or allow mixed-race couples to marry. No conservatives lost liberty in any of those instances. They lost their "special" status, which is what they're really worried about and why the populist rhetoric resonates so strongly with them.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    Reread my post, I I thought I was clear emphasizing that they didn't want imposition on themselves. Nobody does
    - MisterBastahrd 5y ago
      You cannot divorce their record on the rights of others with their claims of being for liberty, thus the GP's post was not uncharitable at all.
  - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago
    Not just Republicans, though. Plenty of Democrats were against gay marriage as well - including Obama as recently as 2004.
    - kelnos 5y ago
      I don't think the parent referenced Republicans or Democrats at all. The parent was talking about "conservatives". And anyone who opposed same-sex marriage in 2004 -- Obama included -- should absolutely be counted as having (at least some) socially-conservative views. Obviously many people changed their minds since then. It is perhaps notable, though, to consider that most of the people who changed their minds since then identify as Democrat, while many more Republicans continue to hold such backward, discriminatory views.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Are you including Obama in that? He was against gay marriage until the tide turned. What about the CA Prop 8 against gay marriage that was widely supported by minorities? Were you "dragging, kicking and screaming" those minorities as well?
    - cuteboy19 5y ago
      'Minorities' are not inherently liberal or conservative. And it's possible to be conservative on one issue only
    - kelnos 5y ago
      I mean... yes? Clearly you're trying to go for a "gotcha!" type comment, but... so what? People who believed same-sex marriage should be illegal are just as wrong as people who believed interracial marriage should be illegal during much of the last century. It doesn't matter if they called themselves Democrats or Republicans or whatever. It doesn't matter if they were part of some majority or minority. They were just as wrong regardless. Some people -- Obama included -- changed their minds, for whatever reason. Many people, sadly, still have not. It might be interesting to look at what kind of person still hasn't seen the light on this, and what political party that kind of person is overwhelmingly more likely to identify with, but that still doesn't really matter much to the rightness or wrongness of a previous belief.
      - refurb 5y ago
        So when Obama became pro-gay marriage is he no longer a conservative? Or is he still one? My comment was more about calling out a group that doesn’t actually exist or at least has no formal definition based on OPs opinion.
        watwut 5y ago
        Yes, he became less conservative on the point of gay rights. Why would that be shocking or gotcha?
        5y ago

> I want the government out of my life as much as possible unless it has to do with your education, gender identity, sexual preference, religion, voting, or women's rights, I assume

s1artibartfast 5y ago

This is an uncharitable reading. Almost no one would answer that they want the government to impose positions over their personal views on those topics

MisterBastahrd 5y ago
Except it's accurate. Most conservatives are fair-weather individualists who only care about "liberty" in loose terms as long as the liberty that they believe is being affected is their own. We had to drag conservatives kicking and screaming over the past 30 years to allow gays to have the right to marry and openly serve in the military, just like we had to drag them kicking and screaming 60 years ago to allow minorities the right to vote, or allow mixed-race couples to marry. No conservatives lost liberty in any of those instances. They lost their "special" status, which is what they're really worried about and why the populist rhetoric resonates so strongly with them.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  Reread my post, I I thought I was clear emphasizing that they didn't want imposition on themselves. Nobody does
  - MisterBastahrd 5y ago
    You cannot divorce their record on the rights of others with their claims of being for liberty, thus the GP's post was not uncharitable at all.
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago
  Not just Republicans, though. Plenty of Democrats were against gay marriage as well - including Obama as recently as 2004.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    I don't think the parent referenced Republicans or Democrats at all. The parent was talking about "conservatives". And anyone who opposed same-sex marriage in 2004 -- Obama included -- should absolutely be counted as having (at least some) socially-conservative views. Obviously many people changed their minds since then. It is perhaps notable, though, to consider that most of the people who changed their minds since then identify as Democrat, while many more Republicans continue to hold such backward, discriminatory views.
- refurb 5y ago
  Are you including Obama in that? He was against gay marriage until the tide turned. What about the CA Prop 8 against gay marriage that was widely supported by minorities? Were you "dragging, kicking and screaming" those minorities as well?
  - cuteboy19 5y ago
    'Minorities' are not inherently liberal or conservative. And it's possible to be conservative on one issue only
  - kelnos 5y ago
    I mean... yes? Clearly you're trying to go for a "gotcha!" type comment, but... so what? People who believed same-sex marriage should be illegal are just as wrong as people who believed interracial marriage should be illegal during much of the last century. It doesn't matter if they called themselves Democrats or Republicans or whatever. It doesn't matter if they were part of some majority or minority. They were just as wrong regardless. Some people -- Obama included -- changed their minds, for whatever reason. Many people, sadly, still have not. It might be interesting to look at what kind of person still hasn't seen the light on this, and what political party that kind of person is overwhelmingly more likely to identify with, but that still doesn't really matter much to the rightness or wrongness of a previous belief.
    - refurb 5y ago
      So when Obama became pro-gay marriage is he no longer a conservative? Or is he still one? My comment was more about calling out a group that doesn’t actually exist or at least has no formal definition based on OPs opinion.
      - watwut 5y ago
        Yes, he became less conservative on the point of gay rights. Why would that be shocking or gotcha?
        5y ago