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I wonder how much innovation in the US is constrained by the fact that people need health insurance, and it is generally expensive as hell. I interviewed with

I wonder how much innovation in the US is constrained by the fact that people need health insurance, and it is generally expensive as hell. I interviewed with a finance startup a few years back and everything was great until we got down to benefits. That's when they broke the news to me that even though they were being financed by a cadre of millionaires and billionaires with long histories in the finance and banking system, they didn't have enough money to offer benefits. LOL. No.

rgrmrts 5y ago
This seems like an outlier. Every startup I’ve seen offers at least basic health insurance. I agree with your sentiment, I’d never work for a place that didn’t offer a basic package.
- sneak 5y ago
  Why? I'd much rather unbundle and just get additional cash comp and buy my own.
  - rgrmrts 5y ago
    Fair point, I guess. The benefit generally accounts for ~$18,000/yr out of pocket so getting ~$30,000/yr in additional comp is fine. These numbers assuming $1500/mo for good coverage (which is what I paid in the past when I was funemployed), and a higher comp accounting for taxation. All that said, I think employers are required by law to provide healthcare? In a perfect world, basic coverage would be part of what you get for paying taxes by the government.
    - sneak 5y ago
      In a perfect world nobody would be forced with violence to make nonconsensual payments to anyone else, so there would be ~0 tax revenue from which to fund such a thing.
kjs3 5y ago
WOW. That's a special sort of asshole right there. I'm reminded of the time years ago talking to a couple of "VC" (really, smalltime angels) dudebros with Rolex's and Mises Institute wristbands who spent the whole pitch talking about how to make sure the startup employees got shafted on equity and how the wait staff at the restaurant didn't deserve tips because they were 'too stupid' to go to a 'real school' and get 'real jobs'.
toast0 5y ago
> I wonder how much innovation in the US is constrained by the fact that people need health insurance, and it is generally expensive as hell. Health insurance is expensive, but I don't think it's "expensive as hell", I've got an unsubsidized ACA plan for $1200/month for a family of three (two early 40s adults and a 10 year old child; Kitsap County, WA), plus $30/month for dental insurance for the kid. Past employers paid more for better coverage, but this covers the mandatory items, and none of the higher priced ACA plans appear to offer me more things covered or a meaningfully better network, so meh.
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  That's fine as long as nobody is sick and you never have to pay your deductible. A single payer system with no deductible would have vastly better outcomes for employees in terms of costs, ability to seek healthcare before things become catastrophic, and income opportunities. There's literally almost no downside.
  - toast0 5y ago
    The family deductible is $12,700, and out of pocket max is $16,400. Premiums plus max is close to $31k/year. But my 2019 COBRA rate was $2,174.52/month or $26k/year. So if I was looking for work and they didn't want to pay for healthcare insurance, it wouldn't be a big deal, I'd just want them to pay at most $30k/year (well, grossed up, because I can't actually deduct anything) more than a company that would pay healthcare insurance; maybe a little less, because I don't expect to need much healthcare during the year (famous last words). It's expensive, but I don't expect it to hamper innovation, because knowledge workers are expensive too. Also, you were complaining about the cost of healthcare insurance, and now you're complaining about the cost of healthcare. They're not the same thing, and yet the terms are used interchangeably. :P Single payer would be nice, but I don't see how we'll get there, when nobody is proposing steps to get us there. I guess there was some push to reduce the medicare eligibility age to 60 last september, but I don't think it went anywhere; I'd like to see a phased in approach of moving the age down by one year ever year for 10 years, and at a faster pace after that, but you'd need to increase funding (which looks to be needed anyway) and pay attention to any other problems that come up.

rgrmrts 5y ago

This seems like an outlier. Every startup I’ve seen offers at least basic health insurance. I agree with your sentiment, I’d never work for a place that didn’t offer a basic package.

sneak 5y ago
Why? I'd much rather unbundle and just get additional cash comp and buy my own.
- rgrmrts 5y ago
  Fair point, I guess. The benefit generally accounts for ~$18,000/yr out of pocket so getting ~$30,000/yr in additional comp is fine. These numbers assuming $1500/mo for good coverage (which is what I paid in the past when I was funemployed), and a higher comp accounting for taxation. All that said, I think employers are required by law to provide healthcare? In a perfect world, basic coverage would be part of what you get for paying taxes by the government.
  - sneak 5y ago
    In a perfect world nobody would be forced with violence to make nonconsensual payments to anyone else, so there would be ~0 tax revenue from which to fund such a thing.

kjs3 5y ago

WOW. That's a special sort of asshole right there. I'm reminded of the time years ago talking to a couple of "VC" (really, smalltime angels) dudebros with Rolex's and Mises Institute wristbands who spent the whole pitch talking about how to make sure the startup employees got shafted on equity and how the wait staff at the restaurant didn't deserve tips because they were 'too stupid' to go to a 'real school' and get 'real jobs'.

toast0 5y ago

> I wonder how much innovation in the US is constrained by the fact that people need health insurance, and it is generally expensive as hell. Health insurance is expensive, but I don't think it's "expensive as hell", I've got an unsubsidized ACA plan for $1200/month for a family of three (two early 40s adults and a 10 year old child; Kitsap County, WA), plus $30/month for dental insurance for the kid. Past employers paid more for better coverage, but this covers the mandatory items, and none of the higher priced ACA plans appear to offer me more things covered or a meaningfully better network, so meh.

MisterBastahrd 5y ago
That's fine as long as nobody is sick and you never have to pay your deductible. A single payer system with no deductible would have vastly better outcomes for employees in terms of costs, ability to seek healthcare before things become catastrophic, and income opportunities. There's literally almost no downside.
- toast0 5y ago
  The family deductible is $12,700, and out of pocket max is $16,400. Premiums plus max is close to $31k/year. But my 2019 COBRA rate was $2,174.52/month or $26k/year. So if I was looking for work and they didn't want to pay for healthcare insurance, it wouldn't be a big deal, I'd just want them to pay at most $30k/year (well, grossed up, because I can't actually deduct anything) more than a company that would pay healthcare insurance; maybe a little less, because I don't expect to need much healthcare during the year (famous last words). It's expensive, but I don't expect it to hamper innovation, because knowledge workers are expensive too. Also, you were complaining about the cost of healthcare insurance, and now you're complaining about the cost of healthcare. They're not the same thing, and yet the terms are used interchangeably. :P Single payer would be nice, but I don't see how we'll get there, when nobody is proposing steps to get us there. I guess there was some push to reduce the medicare eligibility age to 60 last september, but I don't think it went anywhere; I'd like to see a phased in approach of moving the age down by one year ever year for 10 years, and at a faster pace after that, but you'd need to increase funding (which looks to be needed anyway) and pay attention to any other problems that come up.