6 ms·

OpenMW becomes a general-purpose engine for isometric RPGs

158 points by apronchenkov 5y ago

teddyh 5y ago
Does such a general-purpose engine for isometric RPGs actually exist yet, though?
- riidom 5y ago
  For example https://flarerpg.org https://flarerpg.org I didnt follow it closer since years so, so cant tell about the current state. The homepage has some recent news entries though.
- singron 5y ago
  The Infinity Engine was used for Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment. It has an open source reimplementation called GemRB: https://gemrb.org/ https://gemrb.org/
  - loa_in_ 5y ago
    The documentation is pretty much useless to make it a target for developing your own setting
- and0 5y ago
  I'm pretty far into a project to create a Typescript framework for turn and tile-based (think roguelikes) client/server games: https://github.com/chaos-framework https://github.com/chaos-framework. Mix of entity-component and event-driven design (inspired by Brian Bucklew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U03XXzcThGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U03XXzcThGU and Thomas Biksup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGLJC5UY2o4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGLJC5UY2o4, though looking now I'm surprised I landed on a similar but imo more robust event system as I was only looking at EC pattern at the time). Typescript means entity factories and their components can be fully written in the language rather than XML per the videos above, and people can for example distribute a package that is basically DnD5e or Pathfinder rulesets, custom world generators, or anything else to be plugged into a published game. Typical Minecraft "infinite" world data structure, handles binding up event system to component listeners automatically, (will soon) handles serialization, listeners are async generators ala Redux Saga for neat inversion of control and advanced patterns as needed. It doesn't have any specific frontends or clients (APIs and react hooks+utils exist but not super advanced yet, and a small WebGL renderer + react component), it's more a collection of objects that recursively process state updates in response to a user input until it finishes (like a classic console roguelike), and produce a serialized stream of events clients of any kind can listen to, completely agnostic to how any client may choose to represent it, so you could easily make a DM interface vs an interface for players connected to the same server, but it's also not something like Unity that is an all-in-one engine that's ready to publish (unless a proper ecosystem gets fleshed out). It's been a joy to architect and program in, and excited to someday publish it and document it (I haven't updated the examples I've written for the new saga-based event system so it'll probably all be gibberish to an outsider still). Not going to lie, my heart skipped a beat at the headline.. It's selfish but would hate for someone to publish something that covers a lot of the same ground. Sometimes I think to look around again and stop myself.
- sandGorgon 5y ago
  https://learn.unity.com/project/2d-roguelike-tutorial https://learn.unity.com/project/2d-roguelike-tutorial unity is commercial production tier
- skocznymroczny 5y ago
  There's https://www.fifengine.net/ https://www.fifengine.net/ for "Fallout 2 like" rpgs
agluszak 5y ago
I was surprised to see that the zip file really contains some artifacts and not a rickroll.mp4 :)
ironSkillet 5y ago
I am amazed at the longevity of the Morrowind IP. I still get occasional waves of nostalgia going back to playing the game when I was young. This was before the internet made it trivial to find out everything there was to know about a game. Brb...installing...
- mabbo 5y ago
  I remember when my friend and I first installed it on the PC. We must have spent 20 minutes just admiring water that looked like water. Going back and seeing it now, it looks like nothing special at all, but for the time I remember it being a huge leap forward graphically.
  - 0des 5y ago
    I went back recently to morrowind, I shouldn't have. It looked like someone threw mud in my eyes. I got sad about it and started to install the HD textures but it felt forced and I had this feeling like the time I opened my Christmas presents early and had to fake being surprised about all my new socks and sweaters.
    - crdrost 5y ago
      I fell so hard for Morrowind and then Oblivion just wasn't engaging at all, felt like I never got anywhere, I certainly didn't get into any of the main quest like I would have liked. But yeah the graphics are awful and enabling the expansions from day one causes you to suddenly be assassinated in the night when you are still a nobody. On a plus note if you survive and are determined you can use the paralytic effects of the assassin's daggers to win a really powerful sword from a depressed Orc, he wants to die a noble death in combat... Not sure getting paralyzed so that your opponent can drink gallons of Sujamma and smack you with Hulk strength into a wall counts as noble but hey we all have our quirks. The addictive thing about Morrowind was clearly the stories we told ourselves. You knew the people who would get really hooked because they spent hours on that “what’s your name?” screen.
    - pkorzeniewski 5y ago
bee_rider 5y ago
That looked surprisingly usable. The main issue seems to be that the levels aren't designed for an isometric camera. OTOH, it would make the experience of a swing which clearly visibly connected but failed due to a bad 'attack roll' less jarring.
endisneigh 5y ago
Is there something similar to this for making 2D side scrolling RPGs?
- throwaway684936 5y ago
  RPG Maker? https://www.rpgmakerweb.com/ https://www.rpgmakerweb.com/
- MildlySerious 5y ago
  I can not speak from experience, but back in the day GameMaker was the go-to for side scrollers, as far as I remember.
- OliverM 5y ago
  Godot has a pretty good 2D engine for this as well, and it’s much more flexible (but probably does require a bit more coding experience)
vinyl7 5y ago
April fools joke?
- EamonnMR 5y ago
  The leet version number suggests it.
  - willcipriano 5y ago
    "It should be ready in time for Baldurs Gate 42nd anniversary" So 2040.
    - MasterScrat 5y ago
      Thanks - not being familiar with OpenMW, but being very close from the Baldur's Gate license, this whole video and that final reference were all very confusing to me.
Aleksdev 5y ago
It’s a shame more games are going mobile. Seeing this project still kicking gives me great hope.
phendrenad2 5y ago
It's a joke, but I sometimes honestly wonder why no one has made a game based on OpenMW. Then I remember that making a game engine is no longer the bottleneck, as Unity and Unreal are essentially free.
- gameswithgo 5y ago
  and Godot is actually free, but all of these are very general purpose, there is a lot of value in very specific engines for specific types of games, and we may see more of that in the future I think.
  - sho_hn 5y ago
    I don't know why you got downvoted dead. I think it's an interesting point. I don't know if you're right, but it was an interesting premise to think about. Certainly people have for a long time licensed engines made available as a side effect of the creation of a certain type of game to build further on what's been accomished, or to cash in by making derivative games. For example all the shooters made with the Quake engines, which no one would call general purpose. There's a few examples of reused RPG engines (e.g. Infinity Engine) and RTS engines, too. There's also plenty of toolkits dedicated to adventure games and visual novels. Arguing growth is possible is not outrageous.
- elsjaako 5y ago
  I believen OpenMW is considering this as a goal, but the modding/level editing tools aren't there yet (they're still focused on getting morrowind support better for now)
- qznc 5y ago
  The bottleneck is content, especially RPGs require a lot: Art, models, sounds, music, dialogs, story, gui, level design, etc. And everything in a consistent style otherwise it looks too cheap. Multiplayer games require little content relative to play time. Single player do though and thus there are only very few open source ones.
- kizer 5y ago
iamcreasy 5y ago
The isometric gameplay has a Kenshi[1] vibe. [1] https://store.steampowered.com/app/233860/Kenshi/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/233860/Kenshi/
- loa_in_ 5y ago
  Kenshi has an isometric gameplay vibe
loa_in_ 5y ago
I just love the new name: a bit like haikus can be read, I choose to read it as Open Mind every time
causality0 5y ago
Considering their recent decision to halt future development of the Android version this scared me for a second.
bdefore 5y ago
Somewhat related: if you subscribe to Amazon Prime, the follow up to Morrowind, Oblivion, is available to claim during the month of April: https://gaming.amazon.com https://gaming.amazon.com (GOG key)
ZYinMD 5y ago
When I hear "isometric", I think "not perspective", which is a style I like a lot. For example, google image "isometric city". However, looking at the video on the OpenMW site, it does look perspective.
- randyrand 5y ago
  Yes it is perspective. Not isometric. I think they just meant top down 3rd person.

158 points by apronchenkov 5y ago

teddyh 5y ago

Does such a general-purpose engine for isometric RPGs actually exist yet, though?

riidom 5y ago
For example https://flarerpg.org https://flarerpg.org I didnt follow it closer since years so, so cant tell about the current state. The homepage has some recent news entries though.
singron 5y ago
The Infinity Engine was used for Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment. It has an open source reimplementation called GemRB: https://gemrb.org/ https://gemrb.org/
- loa_in_ 5y ago
  The documentation is pretty much useless to make it a target for developing your own setting
and0 5y ago
I'm pretty far into a project to create a Typescript framework for turn and tile-based (think roguelikes) client/server games: https://github.com/chaos-framework https://github.com/chaos-framework. Mix of entity-component and event-driven design (inspired by Brian Bucklew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U03XXzcThGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U03XXzcThGU and Thomas Biksup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGLJC5UY2o4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGLJC5UY2o4, though looking now I'm surprised I landed on a similar but imo more robust event system as I was only looking at EC pattern at the time). Typescript means entity factories and their components can be fully written in the language rather than XML per the videos above, and people can for example distribute a package that is basically DnD5e or Pathfinder rulesets, custom world generators, or anything else to be plugged into a published game. Typical Minecraft "infinite" world data structure, handles binding up event system to component listeners automatically, (will soon) handles serialization, listeners are async generators ala Redux Saga for neat inversion of control and advanced patterns as needed. It doesn't have any specific frontends or clients (APIs and react hooks+utils exist but not super advanced yet, and a small WebGL renderer + react component), it's more a collection of objects that recursively process state updates in response to a user input until it finishes (like a classic console roguelike), and produce a serialized stream of events clients of any kind can listen to, completely agnostic to how any client may choose to represent it, so you could easily make a DM interface vs an interface for players connected to the same server, but it's also not something like Unity that is an all-in-one engine that's ready to publish (unless a proper ecosystem gets fleshed out). It's been a joy to architect and program in, and excited to someday publish it and document it (I haven't updated the examples I've written for the new saga-based event system so it'll probably all be gibberish to an outsider still). Not going to lie, my heart skipped a beat at the headline.. It's selfish but would hate for someone to publish something that covers a lot of the same ground. Sometimes I think to look around again and stop myself.
sandGorgon 5y ago
https://learn.unity.com/project/2d-roguelike-tutorial https://learn.unity.com/project/2d-roguelike-tutorial unity is commercial production tier
skocznymroczny 5y ago
There's https://www.fifengine.net/ https://www.fifengine.net/ for "Fallout 2 like" rpgs

agluszak 5y ago

I was surprised to see that the zip file really contains some artifacts and not a rickroll.mp4 :)

ironSkillet 5y ago

I am amazed at the longevity of the Morrowind IP. I still get occasional waves of nostalgia going back to playing the game when I was young. This was before the internet made it trivial to find out everything there was to know about a game. Brb...installing...

mabbo 5y ago
I remember when my friend and I first installed it on the PC. We must have spent 20 minutes just admiring water that looked like water. Going back and seeing it now, it looks like nothing special at all, but for the time I remember it being a huge leap forward graphically.
- 0des 5y ago
  I went back recently to morrowind, I shouldn't have. It looked like someone threw mud in my eyes. I got sad about it and started to install the HD textures but it felt forced and I had this feeling like the time I opened my Christmas presents early and had to fake being surprised about all my new socks and sweaters.
  - crdrost 5y ago
    I fell so hard for Morrowind and then Oblivion just wasn't engaging at all, felt like I never got anywhere, I certainly didn't get into any of the main quest like I would have liked. But yeah the graphics are awful and enabling the expansions from day one causes you to suddenly be assassinated in the night when you are still a nobody. On a plus note if you survive and are determined you can use the paralytic effects of the assassin's daggers to win a really powerful sword from a depressed Orc, he wants to die a noble death in combat... Not sure getting paralyzed so that your opponent can drink gallons of Sujamma and smack you with Hulk strength into a wall counts as noble but hey we all have our quirks. The addictive thing about Morrowind was clearly the stories we told ourselves. You knew the people who would get really hooked because they spent hours on that “what’s your name?” screen.
  - pkorzeniewski 5y ago

bee_rider 5y ago

That looked surprisingly usable. The main issue seems to be that the levels aren't designed for an isometric camera. OTOH, it would make the experience of a swing which clearly visibly connected but failed due to a bad 'attack roll' less jarring.

endisneigh 5y ago

Is there something similar to this for making 2D side scrolling RPGs?

throwaway684936 5y ago
RPG Maker? https://www.rpgmakerweb.com/ https://www.rpgmakerweb.com/
MildlySerious 5y ago
I can not speak from experience, but back in the day GameMaker was the go-to for side scrollers, as far as I remember.
OliverM 5y ago
Godot has a pretty good 2D engine for this as well, and it’s much more flexible (but probably does require a bit more coding experience)

vinyl7 5y ago

April fools joke?

EamonnMR 5y ago
The leet version number suggests it.
- willcipriano 5y ago
  "It should be ready in time for Baldurs Gate 42nd anniversary" So 2040.
  - MasterScrat 5y ago
    Thanks - not being familiar with OpenMW, but being very close from the Baldur's Gate license, this whole video and that final reference were all very confusing to me.

Aleksdev 5y ago

It’s a shame more games are going mobile. Seeing this project still kicking gives me great hope.

phendrenad2 5y ago

It's a joke, but I sometimes honestly wonder why no one has made a game based on OpenMW. Then I remember that making a game engine is no longer the bottleneck, as Unity and Unreal are essentially free.

gameswithgo 5y ago
and Godot is actually free, but all of these are very general purpose, there is a lot of value in very specific engines for specific types of games, and we may see more of that in the future I think.
- sho_hn 5y ago
  I don't know why you got downvoted dead. I think it's an interesting point. I don't know if you're right, but it was an interesting premise to think about. Certainly people have for a long time licensed engines made available as a side effect of the creation of a certain type of game to build further on what's been accomished, or to cash in by making derivative games. For example all the shooters made with the Quake engines, which no one would call general purpose. There's a few examples of reused RPG engines (e.g. Infinity Engine) and RTS engines, too. There's also plenty of toolkits dedicated to adventure games and visual novels. Arguing growth is possible is not outrageous.
elsjaako 5y ago
I believen OpenMW is considering this as a goal, but the modding/level editing tools aren't there yet (they're still focused on getting morrowind support better for now)
qznc 5y ago
The bottleneck is content, especially RPGs require a lot: Art, models, sounds, music, dialogs, story, gui, level design, etc. And everything in a consistent style otherwise it looks too cheap. Multiplayer games require little content relative to play time. Single player do though and thus there are only very few open source ones.
kizer 5y ago

iamcreasy 5y ago

The isometric gameplay has a Kenshi[1] vibe. [1] https://store.steampowered.com/app/233860/Kenshi/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/233860/Kenshi/

loa_in_ 5y ago
Kenshi has an isometric gameplay vibe

loa_in_ 5y ago

I just love the new name: a bit like haikus can be read, I choose to read it as Open Mind every time

causality0 5y ago

Considering their recent decision to halt future development of the Android version this scared me for a second.

bdefore 5y ago

Somewhat related: if you subscribe to Amazon Prime, the follow up to Morrowind, Oblivion, is available to claim during the month of April: https://gaming.amazon.com https://gaming.amazon.com (GOG key)

ZYinMD 5y ago

When I hear "isometric", I think "not perspective", which is a style I like a lot. For example, google image "isometric city". However, looking at the video on the OpenMW site, it does look perspective.

randyrand 5y ago
Yes it is perspective. Not isometric. I think they just meant top down 3rd person.