4 ms·

Cellphone transmitters are not coherent, they are like LED christmas decorations except lower power.

by SigmundA 5y ago

ncmncm 5y ago
False. Again.
- SigmundA 5y ago
  Really so cellphones are actually microwave lasers, cool!
  - alexvoda 5y ago
    We do actually have microwave lasers, which IIRC predate lasers, called masers. Of course, there is no cellphone equipped with such a thing.
    - nuvious 5y ago
      Masers are cool. My dad worked in an optics lab that used Masers in college and they used Styrofoam for lenses because it's transparent in the microwave spectrum and induces refraction well.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
forum_ghost 5y ago
>Cellphone transmitters are not coherent, they are like LED christmas decorations except lower power. The point is neither one produces ionizing radiation. There are other mechanisms by which non-ionizing radiation can induce cancers, such as the one I've described.
- SigmundA 5y ago
  >There are other mechanisms by which non-ionizing radiation can induce cancers, such as the one I've described. Link please, there are no proven mechanisms such as you describe I am aware of. Your only link points to sun exposure and UVB rays which are near ionizing and cause cancer through DNA damage based on photon energy. Your example of a laser vs led is on point because its purely based on inverse-square, watt per kg and and thermal heating of tissue which is the only known mechanism which cellphone RF frequencies can cause tissue damage and only at orders of magnitude more power levels.
  - forum_ghost 5y ago
    It's too long of a reasoning chain, maybe that's why it's not obvious? it is also an underfunded area of ongoing research with not enough publications, one paper mentioned only 90 papers are published on this specific issue, which is a tiny number, but seems about right. So anyway, the mechanism: "emf does penetrate skin few mm deep" > "that's deep enough to hit mast cells and small nerve fibers" > "we have plenty of evidence non-ionizing radiation can cause mast cell degranulation"/"we have evidence EMF can produce current in nerves" > "mast cells drive inflammation" > "inflammation causes DNA damage and increase risks of cancer." Any of these steps seem controversial to you? you can verify them independently easily. Maybe claim #3. Plenty of papers on that: https://scielo.conicyt.cl/pdf/ijmorphol/v37n2/0717-9502-ijmorphol-37-02-00719.pdf https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0891061816300576 the only real question that remains is how big of an effect this will have on humans. Cars kill over a million EVERY year. Every 5 years we kill as many people as this pandemic. Nobody seems to particularly care. Maybe it will be a small effect, maybe it will kill millions per year, but it seems everyone has made up their minds either way, and unless people start dropping dead in the streets nobody will change their mind.
    - SigmundA 5y ago
      Light also penetrates the skin few mm or more (hold a flashlight to you finger) why aren't we studying similar effects with artificial lights which have much more radiative power? >Maybe claim #3. Plenty of papers on that I can find one paper, mast cell degranulation has lots of causes, maybe just from thermal heating? Always worth looking into I wouldn't call it conclusive by any stretch. I don't think anyone has made up their mind, only that jumping to conclusions isn't warranted base don our understanding of physics, sure we should keep studying but as yet there are no proven non-thermal effects or direct correlation or causation between low power microwave and cancer.

Cellphone transmitters are not coherent, they are like LED christmas decorations except lower power.

ncmncm 5y ago

False. Again.

SigmundA 5y ago
Really so cellphones are actually microwave lasers, cool!
- alexvoda 5y ago
  We do actually have microwave lasers, which IIRC predate lasers, called masers. Of course, there is no cellphone equipped with such a thing.
  - nuvious 5y ago
    Masers are cool. My dad worked in an optics lab that used Masers in college and they used Styrofoam for lenses because it's transparent in the microwave spectrum and induces refraction well.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

forum_ghost 5y ago

>Cellphone transmitters are not coherent, they are like LED christmas decorations except lower power. The point is neither one produces ionizing radiation. There are other mechanisms by which non-ionizing radiation can induce cancers, such as the one I've described.

SigmundA 5y ago
>There are other mechanisms by which non-ionizing radiation can induce cancers, such as the one I've described. Link please, there are no proven mechanisms such as you describe I am aware of. Your only link points to sun exposure and UVB rays which are near ionizing and cause cancer through DNA damage based on photon energy. Your example of a laser vs led is on point because its purely based on inverse-square, watt per kg and and thermal heating of tissue which is the only known mechanism which cellphone RF frequencies can cause tissue damage and only at orders of magnitude more power levels.
- forum_ghost 5y ago
  It's too long of a reasoning chain, maybe that's why it's not obvious? it is also an underfunded area of ongoing research with not enough publications, one paper mentioned only 90 papers are published on this specific issue, which is a tiny number, but seems about right. So anyway, the mechanism: "emf does penetrate skin few mm deep" > "that's deep enough to hit mast cells and small nerve fibers" > "we have plenty of evidence non-ionizing radiation can cause mast cell degranulation"/"we have evidence EMF can produce current in nerves" > "mast cells drive inflammation" > "inflammation causes DNA damage and increase risks of cancer." Any of these steps seem controversial to you? you can verify them independently easily. Maybe claim #3. Plenty of papers on that: https://scielo.conicyt.cl/pdf/ijmorphol/v37n2/0717-9502-ijmorphol-37-02-00719.pdf https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0891061816300576 the only real question that remains is how big of an effect this will have on humans. Cars kill over a million EVERY year. Every 5 years we kill as many people as this pandemic. Nobody seems to particularly care. Maybe it will be a small effect, maybe it will kill millions per year, but it seems everyone has made up their minds either way, and unless people start dropping dead in the streets nobody will change their mind.
  - SigmundA 5y ago
    Light also penetrates the skin few mm or more (hold a flashlight to you finger) why aren't we studying similar effects with artificial lights which have much more radiative power? >Maybe claim #3. Plenty of papers on that I can find one paper, mast cell degranulation has lots of causes, maybe just from thermal heating? Always worth looking into I wouldn't call it conclusive by any stretch. I don't think anyone has made up their mind, only that jumping to conclusions isn't warranted base don our understanding of physics, sure we should keep studying but as yet there are no proven non-thermal effects or direct correlation or causation between low power microwave and cancer.