5 ms·

When this has happened at individual Walmart stores in the past, the company would immediately shut down the store and everyone would lose their jobs. A couple

When this has happened at individual Walmart stores in the past, the company would immediately shut down the store and everyone would lose their jobs. A couple years later they would build a new store within 20 or so miles of the old store, free of the union. This was obviously financially painful for Walmart, but it served as such a strong signal to employees to not even try to unionize that it must have paid for itself many times over given Walmart's thousands of stores. I wonder if Amazon has been taking notes from them on this.

TameAntelope 5y ago
I don't think Amazon wants to shut this warehouse down, my rough understanding is that it's a hugely important warehouse, serving NYC's millions of customers.
- nemo44x 5y ago
  I know people and it’s already in shut down mode. Do you really think they designed their infra to be that vulnerable? It’s time to make a point and turn the community against the agitators. They destroyed good jobs.
  - 0des 5y ago
    > make a point and turn the community against the agitators. Time and time again this is the proven strategy.
- INTPenis 5y ago
  So? Why can't it be in Long Island, New Jersey, Newark, or any other place around NYC? It's a sad state of affairs when corporations are allowed to screw citizens over.
  - hn_version_0023 5y ago
    I’m a 46yro male from the US. When have corporations NOT been allowed to screwed over citizens? I think thats been true for the entirety of my life.
    - INTPenis 5y ago
      And here in Sweden I come from decades of strong unions, strong government oversight. So much so that people are looking to the other side, voting for privatization without understanding the consequences. Voting for parties that promote less government oversight and more control to corporations. Government regulation isn't there to stifle development, it's there to PROTECT. THE. CITIZENS.
      - hn_version_0023 5y ago
        The consequences are dire. In the US, We the People only now exist to line the pockets of the uppermost classes, whose disdain for the rest of us is, well its really getting tiring at this point.
  - ptudan 5y ago
    Staten Island is in a pretty central location. You can go straight to brooklyn / queens / long island without having to go through the city like you would from NJ.
    - coredog64 5y ago
      There are two bridges connecting Staten Island to New Jersey. One is part of I-278 which then continues onto Long Island via the Verrazano Narrows bridge. With that said, I haven’t looked at the toll situation for either of the NJ bridges in years, so maybe tolls alone would be enough to remove any alleged savings from non-union labor.
      - heavyset_go 5y ago
        I'd imagine the tolls for bridges and tunnels are prohibitively expensive for last-mile shipping going from Jersey to NYC. Tolls are absent from NYC to Jersey in some cases, though. That area also has some of the longest commutes and traffic in the country. In my mind, it doesn't make much sense for time sensitive deliveries or efficiency.
  - mabbo 5y ago
    > Why can't it be in Long Island, New Jersey, Newark, or any other place around NYC? Because they already have fulfillment centers in all of those places, and during the holiday season (peak) they are maxed out.
mabbo 5y ago
The capital cost to build a modern Amazon Fulfillment Center is absolutely staggering. I used to be part of a team that helped launch them. Go watch one of those "inside the Amazon warehouse" videos on YouTube. The box/tote sorting machines are millions of dollars each, and there are probably 3 big ones and maybe 2 or 3 more small ones. The ubiquitous conveyor belts are cheap individually, but there are miles of them. The robots moving the storage shelves are not cheap, and there are hundreds of them per floor, and typically 4 floors. Amazon's strategy for the last decade has been to make these huge capital costs to keep variable costs low. They don't just shut an FC down.
- nopenopenopeno 5y ago
  Oh yes they do. See: Rust Belt. I think you’re drastically underestimating the influence of unionization.
- hackernewds 5y ago
  from an outside of perspective, these don't seem to be compelling reasons why Amazon might not do the same. Amazon can choose to lose a LOT of money and bear tight margins in the retail business (as they do already). And they can just move the equipment, they don't have to lose them. I think the reason Amazon might just not do it is there is a lot of scrutiny and discourse against Amazon is politically favorable, that they would embellish their brand as "evil" even further - whether it be real or not.
- archon810 5y ago
  I understand the robots are expensive, but dismantling a distribution center doesn't mean destroying the robots. They can just ship them to a new distribution center elsewhere, pay for relocation and setup, but it's not like they have to destroy them and lose all value.
  - mabbo 5y ago
    The robots, yes. The sorters and conveyance, far less so. A huge portion of their cost is just the installation. For a big, high speed 'shoe'[0] sorter, you're talking about a machine more than 100m long that is heavily, heavily bolted into the cement floor. I believe that particular building has four such sorters. [0] Not a sorter of shoes for your feet, but a sorter that uses little boxes called 'shoes' to carefully knock packages off at the right place.
relueeuler 5y ago
Another direction is more automation. Cover more tasks by humans with robots (this union stuff acts as a selection pressure for innovation). Then just staff the place with qualified robot overlords.
- bushbaba 5y ago
  Or robotics that are controlled by humans in a 3rd country.
trextrex 5y ago
How's that even legal? Aren't there laws to prevent corporate anti-union bullying?

TameAntelope 5y ago

I don't think Amazon wants to shut this warehouse down, my rough understanding is that it's a hugely important warehouse, serving NYC's millions of customers.

nemo44x 5y ago
I know people and it’s already in shut down mode. Do you really think they designed their infra to be that vulnerable? It’s time to make a point and turn the community against the agitators. They destroyed good jobs.
- 0des 5y ago
  > make a point and turn the community against the agitators. Time and time again this is the proven strategy.
INTPenis 5y ago
So? Why can't it be in Long Island, New Jersey, Newark, or any other place around NYC? It's a sad state of affairs when corporations are allowed to screw citizens over.
- hn_version_0023 5y ago
  I’m a 46yro male from the US. When have corporations NOT been allowed to screwed over citizens? I think thats been true for the entirety of my life.
  - INTPenis 5y ago
    And here in Sweden I come from decades of strong unions, strong government oversight. So much so that people are looking to the other side, voting for privatization without understanding the consequences. Voting for parties that promote less government oversight and more control to corporations. Government regulation isn't there to stifle development, it's there to PROTECT. THE. CITIZENS.
    - hn_version_0023 5y ago
      The consequences are dire. In the US, We the People only now exist to line the pockets of the uppermost classes, whose disdain for the rest of us is, well its really getting tiring at this point.
- ptudan 5y ago
  Staten Island is in a pretty central location. You can go straight to brooklyn / queens / long island without having to go through the city like you would from NJ.
  - coredog64 5y ago
    There are two bridges connecting Staten Island to New Jersey. One is part of I-278 which then continues onto Long Island via the Verrazano Narrows bridge. With that said, I haven’t looked at the toll situation for either of the NJ bridges in years, so maybe tolls alone would be enough to remove any alleged savings from non-union labor.
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      I'd imagine the tolls for bridges and tunnels are prohibitively expensive for last-mile shipping going from Jersey to NYC. Tolls are absent from NYC to Jersey in some cases, though. That area also has some of the longest commutes and traffic in the country. In my mind, it doesn't make much sense for time sensitive deliveries or efficiency.
- mabbo 5y ago
  > Why can't it be in Long Island, New Jersey, Newark, or any other place around NYC? Because they already have fulfillment centers in all of those places, and during the holiday season (peak) they are maxed out.

mabbo 5y ago

The capital cost to build a modern Amazon Fulfillment Center is absolutely staggering. I used to be part of a team that helped launch them. Go watch one of those "inside the Amazon warehouse" videos on YouTube. The box/tote sorting machines are millions of dollars each, and there are probably 3 big ones and maybe 2 or 3 more small ones. The ubiquitous conveyor belts are cheap individually, but there are miles of them. The robots moving the storage shelves are not cheap, and there are hundreds of them per floor, and typically 4 floors. Amazon's strategy for the last decade has been to make these huge capital costs to keep variable costs low. They don't just shut an FC down.

nopenopenopeno 5y ago
Oh yes they do. See: Rust Belt. I think you’re drastically underestimating the influence of unionization.
hackernewds 5y ago
from an outside of perspective, these don't seem to be compelling reasons why Amazon might not do the same. Amazon can choose to lose a LOT of money and bear tight margins in the retail business (as they do already). And they can just move the equipment, they don't have to lose them. I think the reason Amazon might just not do it is there is a lot of scrutiny and discourse against Amazon is politically favorable, that they would embellish their brand as "evil" even further - whether it be real or not.
archon810 5y ago
I understand the robots are expensive, but dismantling a distribution center doesn't mean destroying the robots. They can just ship them to a new distribution center elsewhere, pay for relocation and setup, but it's not like they have to destroy them and lose all value.
- mabbo 5y ago
  The robots, yes. The sorters and conveyance, far less so. A huge portion of their cost is just the installation. For a big, high speed 'shoe'[0] sorter, you're talking about a machine more than 100m long that is heavily, heavily bolted into the cement floor. I believe that particular building has four such sorters. [0] Not a sorter of shoes for your feet, but a sorter that uses little boxes called 'shoes' to carefully knock packages off at the right place.

relueeuler 5y ago

Another direction is more automation. Cover more tasks by humans with robots (this union stuff acts as a selection pressure for innovation). Then just staff the place with qualified robot overlords.

bushbaba 5y ago
Or robotics that are controlled by humans in a 3rd country.

trextrex 5y ago

How's that even legal? Aren't there laws to prevent corporate anti-union bullying?