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The Future of the European Union – By Tomas Pueyo

5 points by vinnyglennon 5y ago

NicoJuicy 5y ago
Some good points. But he greatly misinterprets military. Having different countries bring in control of different military tactics and procedures is a benefit, not a weakness. Also, Europe isn't weak. He says that they "suddenly changed some stance on certain issues" and that's exactly what Democracy is about. As the largest democracy project in the world. The success should be more clear, reminder: it's only ~20 years old. All neutral countries feeling threatened by Russia want to join EU and NATO now. This was never a coincidence. It's the raison d'être of NATO , where the EU is an extension of.
- unmole 5y ago
  > As the largest democracy project in the world. By what metric is EU the largest?
  - NicoJuicy 5y ago
    Project ;) I'm not aware of any thing resembling the huge amount of countries that want to join and can leave ( eg. Brexit). The statement should be self-explanatory.
    - unmole 5y ago
      > Project ;) What? Countries want to join the EU for access to the common market and funding. Democracy has very little to do with it.
      - NicoJuicy 5y ago
        You somehow missed the war in Ukraine?
  - rurban 5y ago
    population. India does not count as democracy anymore, if you count full democracies. EU still leads if you the subtract the population of the 3 not really democratic members.
    - unmole 5y ago
      > India does not count as democracy anymore Why? Because some self-important organization said so?
iamthemonster 5y ago
This article is very hard to read without cringing painfully hard. I do appreciate the charts, but the article rapidly descends into incredibly poorly-considered ramblings: "European nations have been so obsessed with their own glorious past, avoiding war, and pushing economic growth, that most of them—especially the big ones—haven’t realized they are small nations yet. Once they realize it, they will be ready to shed their baggage: their national identities. Only when they build a European identity stronger than the regional ones will Europe be ready to unite. Will they become a true nation." Why has Tomas uncritically assumed that national identity is "baggage" and that the only path is towards greater centralisation of power? Just so "the EU" can get the highest numbers in the "GDP" game? So that a centralised military can threaten other nations to gain more economic advantage? I can't think of many Europeans I know who would prefer to emulate US or China rather than maintain their current identity. I think Tomas Pueyo has written some superb articles, but this is absolutely not one of them. It sounds like an overzealous politics undergrad drunkenly boring someone at a college party.

5 points by vinnyglennon 5y ago

Some good points. But he greatly misinterprets military. Having different countries bring in control of different military tactics and procedures is a benefit, not a weakness. Also, Europe isn't weak. He says that they "suddenly changed some stance on certain issues" and that's exactly what Democracy is about. As the largest democracy project in the world. The success should be more clear, reminder: it's only ~20 years old. All neutral countries feeling threatened by Russia want to join EU and NATO now. This was never a coincidence. It's the raison d'être of NATO , where the EU is an extension of.

unmole 5y ago
> As the largest democracy project in the world. By what metric is EU the largest?
- NicoJuicy 5y ago
  Project ;) I'm not aware of any thing resembling the huge amount of countries that want to join and can leave ( eg. Brexit). The statement should be self-explanatory.
  - unmole 5y ago
    > Project ;) What? Countries want to join the EU for access to the common market and funding. Democracy has very little to do with it.
    - NicoJuicy 5y ago
      You somehow missed the war in Ukraine?
- rurban 5y ago
  population. India does not count as democracy anymore, if you count full democracies. EU still leads if you the subtract the population of the 3 not really democratic members.
  - unmole 5y ago
    > India does not count as democracy anymore Why? Because some self-important organization said so?

iamthemonster 5y ago

This article is very hard to read without cringing painfully hard. I do appreciate the charts, but the article rapidly descends into incredibly poorly-considered ramblings: "European nations have been so obsessed with their own glorious past, avoiding war, and pushing economic growth, that most of them—especially the big ones—haven’t realized they are small nations yet. Once they realize it, they will be ready to shed their baggage: their national identities. Only when they build a European identity stronger than the regional ones will Europe be ready to unite. Will they become a true nation." Why has Tomas uncritically assumed that national identity is "baggage" and that the only path is towards greater centralisation of power? Just so "the EU" can get the highest numbers in the "GDP" game? So that a centralised military can threaten other nations to gain more economic advantage? I can't think of many Europeans I know who would prefer to emulate US or China rather than maintain their current identity. I think Tomas Pueyo has written some superb articles, but this is absolutely not one of them. It sounds like an overzealous politics undergrad drunkenly boring someone at a college party.