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I hate to be that guy, but it's not fair to dismiss one of the best open world games released in the last 20 years, and which I believe inspired many things on

• giobox 5y ago
  Agreed - with very little googling you can find the exact same arguments as this article being made in others discussing Breath of the Wild. Lots of people have been rightly celebrating this aspect of BoTW since its release, I found it odd not to mention it as well. It was arguably an even bigger risk for Nintendo to make these radical changes back in 2017, given the sales volume a Zelda game is expected by the business and investors to shift. The industry influence I would credit FromSoftware with is that its ok to make really difficult games again, a trend born through their work such as the Dark Souls games and Elden Ring etc. It's been a long time IMO since games this difficult were this mainstream.
  • bombcar 5y ago
    I don't feel BotW was as big a risk as people take it to be - it was basically single-player WoW and was done with the standard Nintendo polish. I do have to admit it was perfectly aimed at someone like me, who remembers the glory days of video games but no longer has the time or skill to play at a top level.
    • philistine 5y ago
      You’re viewing the risk from the point of view of hindsight. Of course it wasn’t a risk, what we got was successful. Put it in context back before the game existed. The Zelda games are selling well, but they’re never Nintendo’s most successful games. What they are is Nintendo’s most revered. They have a great formula, designed by Miyamoto and polished to perfection by his successors. The critiques are getting deafening though. It’s getting too linear, the dungeons are turning slowly into content tubes, and the time spent on story is too long. What do you do? You don’t do Breath of the Wild to break the mould, you do Link Between Worlds. Link Between Worlds is less linear, and harkens back to the SNES for its story and interaction. You take a step back from your mould, you redefine it. But then BAM! They completely redesigned everything with Breath of The Wild. Link Between Worlds is but a mere footnote. That’s gutsy, and risky.
      • bombcar 5y ago
        I agree it's gutsy, but I don't really see the risk - if BotW had "flopped" it would be a footnote like Link Between Worlds; it wouldn't have sunk the company. Arguably it could have damaged the Switch's reputation. Interestingly it seems Nintendo understood that it could possibly not succeed, by where they placed the story in the timeline. Nintendo, at least ever since the success of the Wii, hasn't been unwilling to make gutsy moves - but even then they do them in ways that they have fall-back positions if they're not as successful as they'd like.
        • mercer 5y ago
          While I agree with your comment, and while this is probably a bit pedantic, I'd argue that gutsy implies there being a risk. Sure, with Nintendo the risk is not something like bankruptcy, but then again the word 'risk' doesn't just mean "a game that risks the company's future".
• intsunny 5y ago
  Yah, it seems very strange the article completely fails to mention Zelda Breath of the Wild. It is amazing to see how many games today have taken inspiration from Zelda BOTW. The first time I played the game, I decided it was more fun just exploring the open world and visiting all the Sheikah Towers. I didn't have good armor/equipment/food/etc, and I had a complete blast doing it. That was one of my fondest memories of gaming.
  • holyyikes 5y ago
    Because Elden Ring is about as far from BOTW as you can possibly be. It's not inspired by it at all.
    • sushid 5y ago
      It's literally their highly refined tried and true formula with BOTW. Hard to believe that you don't see the parallel in open world design if you've played both games.
      • throwntoday 5y ago
        I would not compare these two games. Death Stranding was a refined BotW. Elden Ring is a totally different game and I think comparing it to BotW is an insult to FromSoft as they actually put effort into making the open world feel full of content. BotW is 15min of riding your horse through nothing and dodging the same 2-3 enemy mobs to get to a shrine where maybe you get a fun puzzle but most likely you fight a robot for the 100th time. Enemy, dungeon, weapon, skill, play style, and boss variety is massive in Elden Ring. BotW does not hold a candle to it.
        • kibibu 5y ago
          Weird that you're fighting a robot for the 100th time when there are only 6 "test of strength" shrines.
          • 5y ago
• WHA8m 5y ago
  I definitively agree with you. In favor of the article one could say: The initial statement was basically that something got successful by ignoring "conventional trends of the genre" and the article is about Elden Ring. So the overall statement stays correct, but some context could (should?) have been provided, because things have been done before or originated somewhere else.
• defterGoose 5y ago
  I just want to point out that although BOTW is perhaps the most recent example of a widely lauded (though rightly criticized as well) expansive open world, it is in no way the only or even the primary inspiration that Elden Ring draws on. Yes, it has crafting, dungeons and long vistas. But in that sense, Skyrim is equally valid. Heck, even GTA games fill most of those criteria. And if you're going for sheer quality of exploration over quantity, RDR2 for instance was a far more technically and aesthetically impressive game than BOTW. So I guess all-in-all I agree with your thesis though. Elden Ring does seem to have managed to leave the worst aspects of previous games while inviting the best ideas along for the ride. Add to that the most beautifully crafted world FROM has ever made and you have something that simply exudes GOAT.
  • tomnipotent 5y ago
    It's not about the open world dimension, it's dropping the player into a world with little to no training. Skyrim, GTA, and RDR2 all share the same "Main Mission" mechanic that helps keep players centered on overall story progression while leaving room for side quests and exploration. This "go there, do this, go there" cycle doesn't exist in BOTW or Elden Ring.
    • istorical 5y ago
      Good observation and if I may I think a great term for this is just 'sandbox' gameplay.
      • tomnipotent 5y ago
        > this is just 'sandbox' gameplay That sums it up. Enjoyment comes from core game play mechanics, not quest content. I'd be just as happy with core Street Fighter mechanics in an open world, with no-explanation filler content between boss encounters.
        • TulliusCicero 5y ago
          A lot of games genres could make for good open worlds other than FPSes/action games/action RPG's. Would love to see a Mario open world (Bowser's Fury being a sort of proto example).
• holyyikes 5y ago
  Elden Ring has absolutely nothing in common with BOTW. The whole "exiting the cave to reveal the world" is Socrates cave shit. Old as the hills.
  • oneoff786 5y ago
    Plato
  • astrange 5y ago
    My recommended game where you exit a cave to reveal the outside world is Exile/Avernum III. I don’t think video game starting caves have “shadows on the wall” though?
    • mercer 5y ago
      Exile 3 is probably still my favorite CRPG ever...
• bitlax 5y ago
  Everybody steals from everybody. https://twitter.com/DarkSoulsGame/status/768525788844961792 https://twitter.com/DarkSoulsGame/status/768525788844961792
• linkdd 5y ago
  Zelda BOTW is just the first NES Zelda for the modern era. Nintendo's open-world is the only open-world I liked. I can't get immersed in GTA's open world because I'm just a random going on a killing spree for 15 minutes then shut the game down. I hated Skyrim, the world is big but empty. There is nothing particular about the landscape that makes me want to "go there". Most of the time, I discovered areas because I was going in straight lines. Zelda on the other hand, I was like "oh wow, a mountain split in two, I wanna see it". The landscape view makes you want to see what's going on and act as a map ("oh so the gemini mountain is on my right, I must be at XXX"). You're on top of a tower, look at the volcano, and you're like "what is that thing moving on the horizon". Same thing for pretty much all divine beasts. The other nice thing about BOTW's open world is the map. You don't need it. In The Witcher 3 you have a GPS that tells you where to go. When people tells you to go somewhere in this Zelda, you ask people, you look at the road signs, and you go there. This makes the world much more realistic and less empty because you need to interact with it. To go to the Goron village, you have many ways of doing it, stockpile a huge amount of food to heal while you burn, or go around and talk to people to find the potion. If you choose to stockpile food, you need to hunt, to cook, and to interact with the world once again. The world is part of the game play, unlike many other open world games where the world is just the scenery where the game play take place.
  • oneoff786 5y ago
    Botw is so much more than just NES Zelda. That the two are non linear is just one similarity.
    • linkdd 5y ago
      Both games are centered on exploration more than the main quest. You're thrown into a world without instructions, you don't know who you are or what you're doing here. There is just a world to explore and have a fun adventure in. While quite different of course, they have basically the same goal: you first have to get lost in order to find your way. The fun begins when you explore and stumble across things by mistake. Also many landmarks in BOTW are straight up taken from the NES game, like the twin mountains in the gerudo desert. After Ocarina of Time, the Zelda games went to a linear story with a dungeon formula almost copy pasted for 20 years. BOTW breaks this pattern to get back to its roots: exploration. Just watch the interviews of Aonuma explaining this.
• oneoff786 5y ago
  > What I haven't put my finger on was how both of these games propel you to discover the world, and to find out what's above the hill or if there might be a cave in a cliff. I don't know if it's the terrain design that's actually thought through and not left to some algorithm, or if it's simply the perk of having a great brand behind these games that have rewarded us properly for exploring their previous worlds. Breath of the wild is a game full of secrets. Things are there and they need to be found. Many other open world games are not. They’re full of missions. Because the ui is so informative, you actually get rapid confirmation that there is nothing. A lot of missions start at a hub and make you go to a place and then come back. That’s how that portion of the world gets used. Botw doesn’t do this much. Most content that you find is immediately relevant there because that place is interesting in itself. Lastly, you don’t have a dearth of dialogue to get through things. Dialogue is fine and all but side quests are conceptually very stupid and the writing is inevitably tiresome. It breaks immersion when someone needs you to collect maguffins again.
• throwntoday 5y ago
  Oof, BotW was absolute trash. It was the epitome of bad open-world design. You have an absolutely massive map with nothing to do. The story is fragmented into just four dungeon/town areas and some memories scattered around the map. There are like two villages otherwise with still basically nothing to do in them. Exploration is not rewarded, weapons break for no reason (doesn't add difficulty or fun, it's just frustrating), shrines are repetitive, the list goes on. Nintendo rested on their laurels and released a literal 3/10 game but people still ate it up for some reason. I don't think I have ever been so disappointed with a game in my life, and I've been playing Zelda since I was four years old. I wasn't asking for much, perhaps if the map was 1/10th the size they could have spent more effort filling it with content. Elden Ring is in total juxtaposition. Exploration is rewarded with secret weapons, armor and skills that don't break and are actually useful. Your build is totally up to you and the wide variety means options for how you play the game, fight the bosses, and navigate enemy corridors is huge. FromSoft added respec this go around which lets you change it up if you're getting decimated over a bad build or just want to try something else. The bosses are unforgiving but manageable if you're resiliant. The map is still large enough to get lost in, but small enough that it doesn't feel empty. You're forced to ditch your horse in many areas out of respect for navigating on foot. And of course the story/lore which FromSoft is known for being bad at delivering (usually told through items and notes collected through the game) is leagues better than previous titles, having GRRM consult and help build out the lore was a brilliant idea as well. This game is 10/10, they did not compromise on their core values of delivering a legit challenge to players and improved upon every conceivable part of the game. If it's not clear, I really love this game. I'm 75hrs into my first playthrough and only 50% of the trophies achieved. This has been great value in my opinion.
  • andrewingram 5y ago
    I’m over 100 hours in, and it’s probably the most sticky gaming experience I’ve had in years. I’ve played most of the recent AAA open world games (Horizon Forbidden West, Far Cry 6, AC Valhalla etc), and Elden Ring is the only one that didn’t quickly descend into feeling like a chore. It’s got a lot of rough edges, but it’s an absolute breath of fresh air; and even my gf says it’s the one she’s enjoyed watching me play the most.
• anothernewdude 5y ago
  I got bored quickly of BoTW, not so Elden Ring. I think because there was so little to do in BoTW.
  • cassianoleal 5y ago
    I had the opposite experience. When I got a Switch BotW was the only game worth playing on the platform. I played it for over a year exclusively and had fun all the way. I tried to play Elden Ring but I made the mistake of provoking an NPC and dying about 10 times until I figured out how to shake him off. Then I proceeded to die another 10-15 times on the next NPC and a dragon until I figured out how to run away from those. I gave up after dying again on the encounter that followed those. Eventually I'll try to play it again but at the moment I'm sunk into Ghost of Tsushima which is awesome.
  • Zizizizz 5y ago
    Elden Ring has far less variety than breath of the wild. Unless you count killing things in different locations variety. https://youtu.be/9EvbqxBUG_c https://youtu.be/9EvbqxBUG_c This video gives a fraction of some of the interesting world interactions and enemy ai that I found more enjoyable as a game. You can interact with chests, doors, and levers and talk to people. I think that's it outside combat.
    • mercer 5y ago
      I think it's more about the variety that one cares about. I love both BotW and Elden Ring, but I could see either one 'lacking' somewhat in variety depending on what I choose to care about more.
• Bombthecat 5y ago
  I didn't like botw.. At all! Maybe I'm too old for "giant world survival crafting exploration" time of games. I don't know. It felt all wrong and... Hacked together? Like they planned a different game and then put the zelda theme on top of it. Something like that..
• Bayart 5y ago
  >or something as simple as picking up consumables with a simple press of a button with no animations That's something they probably picked up from Monster Hunter.
• historia_novae 5y ago
  >best open world games released in the last 20 years, [...] I'm talking about Breath of the Wild. BotW, if it wasn't for the Zelda tag in it's name, would have been judged for what it truely is: a very mediocre game. It does almost eveything wrong: the reward loop isn't satisfactory because getting a weapon that will break after a few hit feel useless, the cooking system has no tutorial and is hard to understand wihtout looking up on the internet and once understood is very tedious to use more a few time in a row, there is a lack a variety in enemies that are just copy-pasta of each other, the rain is basically stopping exploration as soon as it starts, thunder is even more infuriating: it's just a punishing mechanic that does the finger to the player, the world is big but empty, the shrines are mini-games designed by interns and feel often very out of place just as the UI (the red magnet for instance) are breaking immersion, the controls... oh the controls there are 16 different buttons + 2 joysticks (that are also clickable) on the Switch and every. single. of. them. is. used. for some action. That's 20 input to remember (I don't), bring me back the GameCube controller with its 7 buttons please! Aweful monetization too: a basic feature in an adventure game (path roamed by the player) is locked behing a DLC, and a lot of equipments are locked behind physical and expensive DLC (Amiibo). Very few memorable NPCs, forgettable music, almost no story, the list goes one. In conclusion: this is likely the most overrated game in existence. But a Zelda (or Mario or Pokemon) in the name and people will buy it and like it whatever the quality. I regretted almost instantly spending money on it.
  • philistine 5y ago
    Your criticism is far from unique. A ton of people criticized the game for exactly what you say. However, those weaknesses turn into strengths for the vast majority of people. Take raining for example. I hate the rain, but I’m glad it’s there. It forces you to change your plan when it starts. Some of my most memorable moments where after the rain forced me to rethink traversal. Weapon durability was a common critique, but once again it’s to force you to change your weapons. Not to get married to any weapon style, and to savagely throw your weapons at your enemies. I love it.
  • footlose_3815 5y ago
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• threatofrain 5y ago
  I'm surprised many sing high praises for BoTW. When compared to the rest of the Zelda franchise, BoTW looks unloved to me. Shrines and Korok leaves are chores and treasures are just variations of stats. In prior Zeldas, dungeons were architecturally complicated and treasures would bring a new kind of ability.
  • oonerspism 5y ago
    It's just a different formula. The elements are mostly still there.
  • philistine 5y ago
    I think you’re correctly criticizing the weakest aspect of the game: the dungeons. They are not as inventive or unique as in previous games. They all use the same textures, which is so tiring after a while. As Nintendo and Monolith Soft (the secret MVPs of that game) develop sequels based on the formula, they’ll close the dungeon gap and give us even better games. Looking at the trailers for the sequel, I’m pretty convinced this will be the big difference; unique dungeons based on their previous work.
    • skhr0680 5y ago
      I liked the puzzles in the BOTW dungeons, and nothing in them made me rage as much as Snowhead Temple, especially the very last puzzle in it
  • skhr0680 5y ago
    The BOTW map is insane, every nook and cranny feels unique and memorable, and the features are spaced out perfectly. There were so many times I felt like I was being clever by eating stamina items to climb a cliff or parasail further… …to find a Korok at the exact spot I “cheated” to get to. > Shrines and Korok leaves are chores They’re designed to be fun if you discover them naturally instead of actively trying to get them all. Getting 13 hearts and two stamina wheels only takes about half the shrines, and I felt like I had plenty of inventory space after 200 or so Koroks, not to mention the “reward” for going to the trouble of getting all of the Koroks
• Shadonototra 5y ago
  • linkdd 5y ago
    You need to chill and calm down a bit. Your comment is full of hate because someone basically have a different opinion than you. This is toxic and I expect it to get flagged pretty quickly.
    • Shadonototra 5y ago
      Hate? arguments is what you describe as hate? Bring arguments please instead of trying to fight with attempts to silence someone Are we on a Chinese/Russian website? Offended because you don't know how to reply.. weird If you disagree with me, you downvote, it's that simple, why trying to censor everything?
      • linkdd 5y ago
        > the zoomers need to stop with their nintendo simping, it's cringe, the same people who promote the cancerous pedo-anime culture from japan So this is not hate to you? Basically insulting a complete generation, fans of a franchise, making dubious comparison with unrelated things and accusations of pedophilia? Are you a joke? > Bring arguments please Read siblings comments, I already explained my point of view.
        • deleted 5y ago
          [deleted]
        • Shadonototra 5y ago
          • linkdd 5y ago
            What does it have to do with Zelda games? You keep saying I'm offended like it's some sort of magical word to dismiss what I'm telling you. You keep making assumptions and accusations about me and an entire fandom, for what reasons? Because we like a game you don't? Grow up.
• footlose_3815 5y ago
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