6 ms·

Is the electric conversion still a thing? I want an eclectic car with no monitors, no software updates, no surveillance (none of the new electric car offers tha

Is the electric conversion still a thing? I want an eclectic car with no monitors, no software updates, no surveillance (none of the new electric car offers that - they are calling home for updates and god knows why way too often, and they have bigger monitors than my 14" work laptop).

distortedsignal 5y ago
Ford will sell you an electric crate engine for $4k [1]. At that point, I think it's up to you to supply the other parts of the system. I assume that at this point there are enough wrecks of Model S/X/3/Y that you should be able to pick up electric motors from them at junkyards. The thing I really worry about with electric swaps is battery. You could have a Note 7 situation on your hands _real easy_ if you're not careful. [1] https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9000-MACHE https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9000-MACHE
- aetherspawn 5y ago
  Inverter not included .. useless
- __david__ 5y ago
  "Note 7 situation"—I don't understand this reference, can you explain?
  - colanderman 5y ago
    Lithium-ion battery fire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_Note_7#Battery_faults https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_Note_7#Battery_...
- KennyBlanken 5y ago
  Production EV battery packs almost always include some sort of BMS and have lots of interlocks and safeties. You don't really have to do much to work with them other than to talk to the BMS and not exceed voltage and current limits. If you do, the BMS will trip the pack's internal HV contactor. Safely installing/modding/repairing automotive fuel systems is likely just as, if not more, dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. There are few interlocks on automotive fuel systems beyond "if the engine stops spinning, turn off the fuel pump" or in some vehicles, there might be a crash/rollover fuel shutoff switch. People think working on EVs is super scary when reality is that you can usually pull a cover in the rear passenger area, find and pull a bright orange plug, and the HV system is rendered completely safe. EVs don't have a billion places you can scald or burn yourself, their "engine" compartments generally don't have much or any spinning objects that could deglove your hands, there's no fuel or oil to catch fire, no high pressure hydraulics...
  - galangalalgol 5y ago
    Do any of those BMS do cooling? The parking lot at work hits 115F regularly and that is bad for batteries. I'd love a conversion, but I worry I'd get nissan leaf battery life vs tesla s battery life. I'm thinking something like an old mazda bongo import. For that matter, do any of the kits power the ac compressor?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    All true, but a pack that has been in a crash might be broken in subtle and hard to detect ways. A short in the pack would be a quick way to ruin your day.
  - distortedsignal 5y ago
    Is there a place you know of to get production EV battery packs? I'm an amateur mechanic, and this might be up my alley, but (as above) I'm worried about these battery fire situations.
    - s5300 5y ago
      Unless I’m misreading what you’re after, batteryhookup.com I and acquaintances in my hobby have dealt with them a lot, very great site.
skykooler 5y ago
Yep! There are some good resources at https://evwest.com https://evwest.com (not affiliated but have bought parts from there before).
pards 5y ago
This x 100. My next car will probably have to be electric but I need it to be bare bones, serviceable and FOSS. DIY might be the only option
gambiting 5y ago
>>none of the new electric car offers that Eh? I literally got a brand new electric VW e-Up last week, it's exactly that. It even still has analog dials, and VW provides a mount for your phone instead of an "infotainment" system. The height of sophistication is DAB radio and heated front window and seats. I highly recommend it, it's a hoot - and with 150 miles range and rapid charging capability it's more than enough for all my needs. That's the dashboard in it, it's as "bare minimum" as it gets: https://media.drivingelectric.com/image/private/s--7PGbPUr6--/f_auto,t_primary-image-desktop@1/v1597796103/drivingelectric/2020-03/dsc_6606.jpg https://media.drivingelectric.com/image/private/s--7PGbPUr6-...
- wlesieutre 5y ago
  Not in the US I don't think. Even manufacturers that have been generally anti-touchscreen (read: mazda) went and stuffed in touchscreen HVAC controls because "people expect that in electric cars" or something.
- hollander 5y ago
  That's a nice car. The range is a bit limited, but I could see myself buying it. Thanks for this info!
- digisign 5y ago
  The problem isn't only the dashboard, it is the pervasive surveillance. This car is better than most but I've read here before that it still had some flaws. Can't find the post at the moment however.
  - mavhc 5y ago
    Find the radio, remove the aerial/sim card, done.
    - digisign 5y ago
      Ok as a band-aid, but doesn't create any market pressure to provide an alternative.
KennyBlanken 5y ago
Most any vehicle with "telematics" available made in the last ~10 years is calling home with your location and a variety of information like cabin and outdoor air temperature, whether the wipers and headlights are on, etc. The data is sold to third parties, with varying levels of anonymization. This happens regardless of whether you're paying for a subscription to their telematics, whether you have a GPS navigation system optioned, etc. I know this because a friend worked for a company trying to monetize that data for weather forecasting. If you want to disable this nonsense, just unplug the cellular antenna and connect it to a dummy load.
- dreamcompiler 5y ago
  First you have to find the antenna, and there might be more than one.
- ungamedplayer 5y ago
  Some markets don't have this. You can't get remote start in some Toyotas etc. Is this just a usa thing?
- inyorgroove 5y ago
  My car has this, but with the sunset for 3G this year I am pretty sure the the data can't make it home anymore.
hadlock 5y ago
The inverter/regen braking, and charger units do have some firmware, but once everything is wired up and working, should work indefinitely without future OTA updates. If the national charging standard changes at some point in the future (or gets exported to another area (europe) that uses a different standard) you'll need to swap out the charger. Companies like EV West in California and Swindon in the UK offer bolt-in kits for 1960s cars, in particular the VW Beetle and the original Cooper Mini Long term, as engine parts become harder to source, especially for low volume european cars, Electric Conversion is rapidly becoming the accepted way to keep these classics on the road for another 100 years.
- hnov 5y ago
  Engines like the VW typ 4 in the 914 are probably not going extinct anytime soon, you can order a ready to go longblock fairly easily [0]. For larger cars, a GM gen IV V8 can be had with CA-compliant emissions out of any parts catalog [1]. [0] https://scatvw.com/product/2-0-liter-long-block-24-875-779/ https://scatvw.com/product/2-0-liter-long-block-24-875-779/ [1] https://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Performance/809/19421057/10002/-1 https://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Performance/809/19421057/10...
  - hadlock 5y ago
    Agreed; I suspect the reason why the VW has been targeted by EV makers is largely because the tuner/enthusiast crowd is quite large, and also it's an extremely well understood/documented platform. I haven't seen the EV West stuff up close in person yet, but it looks like as a platform to develop a set of standard equipment for other cars, the VW is a good initial choice for those reasons. I have a similarly size/weight prewar french car, and when the engine finally gives out, will probably pull out the petrol engine and swap in a VW kit, but with a custom bell housing adapter. A 70-100hp electric motor meant for a VW is not a lot of power, but can provide enough low end torque to keep the car driving in modern traffic for 100-130 miles, which is probably enough for the use classic cars get.
zamfi 5y ago
> they have bigger monitors than my 14" work laptop Unfortunately, though you might find one with a smaller screen, you won't find ANY new car with no screen these days -- backup cameras (and, by implication, a screen to see its feed) have been required on new cars in the US since 2018.
- fragmede 5y ago
  Some cars house the screen inside rear view mirror (notably some Subarus), as there is no specific requirement on screen size.
jrockway 5y ago
People do electric conversions. I've been randomly watching someone on YouTube convert an old Jaguar: https://www.youtube.com/c/superfastmatt https://www.youtube.com/c/superfastmatt Being an automotive engineer that worked for Tesla seems to be helpful, though.
hathawsh 5y ago
I've been watching the Hummer conversion project from JerryRigEverything. It's a great series because he's not an expert on EVs, but he's competent with tools. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxkPuEmIX4U&list=PL0vZL9uwyfOFezIOiBjkdW3TTdn0Q_AKL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxkPuEmIX4U&list=PL0vZL9uwyf...
zitterbewegung 5y ago
Yea electric conversion is a thing and according to Rich rebuilds they are making better kits instead of wiring everything manually. But like all car projects it’s a money pit. Expect to spend $50k in parts and labor. And it may or may not be street legal for that price. Driving the vehicle in places where you don’t have cell service or where it can be cold would be a bad idea if the conversion breaks down. Or just get a satellite phone and AAA.
elihu 5y ago
It's still a thing. It's a lot of work though and it pretty much never makes financial sense versus just buying a used Leaf or something. But it's one way to get a car that's exactly what you want. I'm currently working on converting a Mazda RX-8.
jimnotgym 5y ago
It definitely is a thing for classic cars. These people even have a discovery channel show about them. They look awesome, and are within easy electric range of my house! https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk
sgustard 5y ago
Check out https://www.everrati.com https://www.everrati.com for electric conversions.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
How fast do you need to go? Hyster, Crown, et. al. make what you want.
trainsarebetter 5y ago
Check out the openinverter.org/wiki project. it’s very active, lots of development and backing going on I also design a variety of parts for adapting oem ev parts for other vehicles www.bratindustries.net
zrm 5y ago
Is anybody doing surveillance conversions? Like take a stock Tesla, throw out the computer it comes with and replace it with one that doesn't spy on you. Keep everything else. Probably easier than doing the reverse, isn't it?
- myself248 5y ago
  That's a brilliant idea, and I think I might be well-positioned to offer it. Not with Teslas specifically; I think surveillance is woven so deep into the fabric of the vehicle, it'd be a lot of work to get it out. But with most other makes, it's just a telematics unit that's easy enough to remove or bypass, and most of the other functionality just keeps working. How would one price such a service? Often the research is 99% of the work, and the actual labor is just pulling a connector or two, perhaps fabricating a short bypass harness.
  - zrm 5y ago
    Depends how big you think the market is.
pinkythepig 5y ago
Surprisingly enough, you can get that from the BMW i3. - The monitor is necessary but it is not a touch screen and it comes with a nice clicky knob to control it. Plus you can make shortcuts to go to certain screens with the radio station buttons. - 2014 - 2017? all shipped with a 3g module that is now unsupported and not working. - You can get access to munros teardown report for $10(1), and if you know where to look ;) you can find the service tech training manuals and their repair instructions for free which are all very detailed. - realoem.com has exploded parts diagrams with part numbers for everything. The only negatives really is: - buying OEM parts comes with that BMW price premium and the dealer will 100% rip you off if you ever take it to them for repairs. - The OEM tires, the only kind that fit on the OEM wheels, have terrible tread life. (1)https://munrolive.com/support-%2F-store/ols/products/bmw-i3-reports https://munrolive.com/support-%2F-store/ols/products/bmw-i3-...

distortedsignal 5y ago

Ford will sell you an electric crate engine for $4k [1]. At that point, I think it's up to you to supply the other parts of the system. I assume that at this point there are enough wrecks of Model S/X/3/Y that you should be able to pick up electric motors from them at junkyards. The thing I really worry about with electric swaps is battery. You could have a Note 7 situation on your hands _real easy_ if you're not careful. [1] https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9000-MACHE https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9000-MACHE

aetherspawn 5y ago
Inverter not included .. useless
__david__ 5y ago
"Note 7 situation"—I don't understand this reference, can you explain?
- colanderman 5y ago
  Lithium-ion battery fire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_Note_7#Battery_faults https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_Note_7#Battery_...
KennyBlanken 5y ago
Production EV battery packs almost always include some sort of BMS and have lots of interlocks and safeties. You don't really have to do much to work with them other than to talk to the BMS and not exceed voltage and current limits. If you do, the BMS will trip the pack's internal HV contactor. Safely installing/modding/repairing automotive fuel systems is likely just as, if not more, dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. There are few interlocks on automotive fuel systems beyond "if the engine stops spinning, turn off the fuel pump" or in some vehicles, there might be a crash/rollover fuel shutoff switch. People think working on EVs is super scary when reality is that you can usually pull a cover in the rear passenger area, find and pull a bright orange plug, and the HV system is rendered completely safe. EVs don't have a billion places you can scald or burn yourself, their "engine" compartments generally don't have much or any spinning objects that could deglove your hands, there's no fuel or oil to catch fire, no high pressure hydraulics...
- galangalalgol 5y ago
  Do any of those BMS do cooling? The parking lot at work hits 115F regularly and that is bad for batteries. I'd love a conversion, but I worry I'd get nissan leaf battery life vs tesla s battery life. I'm thinking something like an old mazda bongo import. For that matter, do any of the kits power the ac compressor?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- jacquesm 5y ago
  All true, but a pack that has been in a crash might be broken in subtle and hard to detect ways. A short in the pack would be a quick way to ruin your day.
- distortedsignal 5y ago
  Is there a place you know of to get production EV battery packs? I'm an amateur mechanic, and this might be up my alley, but (as above) I'm worried about these battery fire situations.
  - s5300 5y ago
    Unless I’m misreading what you’re after, batteryhookup.com I and acquaintances in my hobby have dealt with them a lot, very great site.

skykooler 5y ago

Yep! There are some good resources at https://evwest.com https://evwest.com (not affiliated but have bought parts from there before).

pards 5y ago

This x 100. My next car will probably have to be electric but I need it to be bare bones, serviceable and FOSS. DIY might be the only option

gambiting 5y ago

>>none of the new electric car offers that Eh? I literally got a brand new electric VW e-Up last week, it's exactly that. It even still has analog dials, and VW provides a mount for your phone instead of an "infotainment" system. The height of sophistication is DAB radio and heated front window and seats. I highly recommend it, it's a hoot - and with 150 miles range and rapid charging capability it's more than enough for all my needs. That's the dashboard in it, it's as "bare minimum" as it gets: https://media.drivingelectric.com/image/private/s--7PGbPUr6--/f_auto,t_primary-image-desktop@1/v1597796103/drivingelectric/2020-03/dsc_6606.jpg https://media.drivingelectric.com/image/private/s--7PGbPUr6-...

wlesieutre 5y ago
Not in the US I don't think. Even manufacturers that have been generally anti-touchscreen (read: mazda) went and stuffed in touchscreen HVAC controls because "people expect that in electric cars" or something.
hollander 5y ago
That's a nice car. The range is a bit limited, but I could see myself buying it. Thanks for this info!
digisign 5y ago
The problem isn't only the dashboard, it is the pervasive surveillance. This car is better than most but I've read here before that it still had some flaws. Can't find the post at the moment however.
- mavhc 5y ago
  Find the radio, remove the aerial/sim card, done.
  - digisign 5y ago
    Ok as a band-aid, but doesn't create any market pressure to provide an alternative.

KennyBlanken 5y ago

Most any vehicle with "telematics" available made in the last ~10 years is calling home with your location and a variety of information like cabin and outdoor air temperature, whether the wipers and headlights are on, etc. The data is sold to third parties, with varying levels of anonymization. This happens regardless of whether you're paying for a subscription to their telematics, whether you have a GPS navigation system optioned, etc. I know this because a friend worked for a company trying to monetize that data for weather forecasting. If you want to disable this nonsense, just unplug the cellular antenna and connect it to a dummy load.

dreamcompiler 5y ago
First you have to find the antenna, and there might be more than one.
ungamedplayer 5y ago
Some markets don't have this. You can't get remote start in some Toyotas etc. Is this just a usa thing?
inyorgroove 5y ago
My car has this, but with the sunset for 3G this year I am pretty sure the the data can't make it home anymore.

hadlock 5y ago

The inverter/regen braking, and charger units do have some firmware, but once everything is wired up and working, should work indefinitely without future OTA updates. If the national charging standard changes at some point in the future (or gets exported to another area (europe) that uses a different standard) you'll need to swap out the charger. Companies like EV West in California and Swindon in the UK offer bolt-in kits for 1960s cars, in particular the VW Beetle and the original Cooper Mini Long term, as engine parts become harder to source, especially for low volume european cars, Electric Conversion is rapidly becoming the accepted way to keep these classics on the road for another 100 years.

hnov 5y ago
Engines like the VW typ 4 in the 914 are probably not going extinct anytime soon, you can order a ready to go longblock fairly easily [0]. For larger cars, a GM gen IV V8 can be had with CA-compliant emissions out of any parts catalog [1]. [0] https://scatvw.com/product/2-0-liter-long-block-24-875-779/ https://scatvw.com/product/2-0-liter-long-block-24-875-779/ [1] https://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Performance/809/19421057/10002/-1 https://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Performance/809/19421057/10...
- hadlock 5y ago
  Agreed; I suspect the reason why the VW has been targeted by EV makers is largely because the tuner/enthusiast crowd is quite large, and also it's an extremely well understood/documented platform. I haven't seen the EV West stuff up close in person yet, but it looks like as a platform to develop a set of standard equipment for other cars, the VW is a good initial choice for those reasons. I have a similarly size/weight prewar french car, and when the engine finally gives out, will probably pull out the petrol engine and swap in a VW kit, but with a custom bell housing adapter. A 70-100hp electric motor meant for a VW is not a lot of power, but can provide enough low end torque to keep the car driving in modern traffic for 100-130 miles, which is probably enough for the use classic cars get.

zamfi 5y ago

> they have bigger monitors than my 14" work laptop Unfortunately, though you might find one with a smaller screen, you won't find ANY new car with no screen these days -- backup cameras (and, by implication, a screen to see its feed) have been required on new cars in the US since 2018.

fragmede 5y ago
Some cars house the screen inside rear view mirror (notably some Subarus), as there is no specific requirement on screen size.

jrockway 5y ago

People do electric conversions. I've been randomly watching someone on YouTube convert an old Jaguar: https://www.youtube.com/c/superfastmatt https://www.youtube.com/c/superfastmatt Being an automotive engineer that worked for Tesla seems to be helpful, though.

hathawsh 5y ago

I've been watching the Hummer conversion project from JerryRigEverything. It's a great series because he's not an expert on EVs, but he's competent with tools. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxkPuEmIX4U&list=PL0vZL9uwyfOFezIOiBjkdW3TTdn0Q_AKL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxkPuEmIX4U&list=PL0vZL9uwyf...

zitterbewegung 5y ago

Yea electric conversion is a thing and according to Rich rebuilds they are making better kits instead of wiring everything manually. But like all car projects it’s a money pit. Expect to spend $50k in parts and labor. And it may or may not be street legal for that price. Driving the vehicle in places where you don’t have cell service or where it can be cold would be a bad idea if the conversion breaks down. Or just get a satellite phone and AAA.

elihu 5y ago

It's still a thing. It's a lot of work though and it pretty much never makes financial sense versus just buying a used Leaf or something. But it's one way to get a car that's exactly what you want. I'm currently working on converting a Mazda RX-8.

jimnotgym 5y ago

It definitely is a thing for classic cars. These people even have a discovery channel show about them. They look awesome, and are within easy electric range of my house! https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk

sgustard 5y ago

Check out https://www.everrati.com https://www.everrati.com for electric conversions.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

How fast do you need to go? Hyster, Crown, et. al. make what you want.

trainsarebetter 5y ago

Check out the openinverter.org/wiki project. it’s very active, lots of development and backing going on I also design a variety of parts for adapting oem ev parts for other vehicles www.bratindustries.net

zrm 5y ago

Is anybody doing surveillance conversions? Like take a stock Tesla, throw out the computer it comes with and replace it with one that doesn't spy on you. Keep everything else. Probably easier than doing the reverse, isn't it?

myself248 5y ago
That's a brilliant idea, and I think I might be well-positioned to offer it. Not with Teslas specifically; I think surveillance is woven so deep into the fabric of the vehicle, it'd be a lot of work to get it out. But with most other makes, it's just a telematics unit that's easy enough to remove or bypass, and most of the other functionality just keeps working. How would one price such a service? Often the research is 99% of the work, and the actual labor is just pulling a connector or two, perhaps fabricating a short bypass harness.
- zrm 5y ago
  Depends how big you think the market is.

pinkythepig 5y ago

Surprisingly enough, you can get that from the BMW i3. - The monitor is necessary but it is not a touch screen and it comes with a nice clicky knob to control it. Plus you can make shortcuts to go to certain screens with the radio station buttons. - 2014 - 2017? all shipped with a 3g module that is now unsupported and not working. - You can get access to munros teardown report for $10(1), and if you know where to look ;) you can find the service tech training manuals and their repair instructions for free which are all very detailed. - realoem.com has exploded parts diagrams with part numbers for everything. The only negatives really is: - buying OEM parts comes with that BMW price premium and the dealer will 100% rip you off if you ever take it to them for repairs. - The OEM tires, the only kind that fit on the OEM wheels, have terrible tread life. (1)https://munrolive.com/support-%2F-store/ols/products/bmw-i3-reports https://munrolive.com/support-%2F-store/ols/products/bmw-i3-...