8 ms·

"can we please work to discontinue using 'master' and 'slave' to describe things in computer science and electronics" This is not an argument, thus it does not

"can we please work to discontinue using 'master' and 'slave' to describe things in computer science and electronics" This is not an argument, thus it does not require a counter argument. This is a silly request, with no justification. Nothing more.

rybosome 5y ago
It’s not a silly request. “Slave” is a very specific term that is highly emotionally charged. There are plenty of alternatives which convey the intended meaning just as clearly without the offensive connotation. Imagine if one were to insist on referring to “male” and “female” connectors as “cocks” and “fuckholes”. This is not a hill worth dying on.
- ravar 5y ago
  Yes slave is derived from the word slav as they were the victims of the brutal ottoman slave trade for hundreds of years. We should be nicer to our slavic bretheren.
- klibertp 5y ago
  That emotional charge is pretty specific to a single culture, while English is used by a large part of the world as second language. It's ok to try to right the wrongs you are guilty of, but please stop trying to project that guilt to other cultures. Where I live there were no slaves or slavery after ca. 1600 - and even before that it was foreign institution imported from the Mongols. That's enough time for emotions to settle down, really.
  - rybosome 5y ago
    I choose not to use the term “gypped” in technical contexts even though I live in the US. I wouldn’t use “genocide” to describe a technical concept even though it’s been over a century since the US has taken part in one. Why not error on the side of decency?
    - klibertp 5y ago
      Sure, why not? If you name the default branch of your repository "main", I will happily submit PRs against it. I won't be doing that in my repos any time soon though, thank you very much. Why? Because that would suggest that I have a reason to do that, while I don't. It's your cross to carry, not mine. I have my own set of words that I need to be careful with if I want to err on the side of decency. You almost assuredly use some of them as if there was nothing offensive about them. To you, there isn't. I accept that. I'd be grateful if you reciprocated, instead of trying to impose your own cultural norms on me, thank you in advance.
      - rybosome 5y ago
        What are some examples of these words? I’d like to know for my own edification, this is not a challenge. If you actually want to be decent, then that means taking global perspectives into account if your communication is to a global audience. If I posted a tweet saying that my company is looking for “refugees from big tech”, that would be insensitive even though there aren’t refugees fleeing the US. Saying that the issue of refugees is not sensitive in my local cultural scope is not an excuse if the audience for my communication was larger than that.
        knighthack 5y ago
        I don't even know how the phrase "refugees from big tech" could be offensive or insensitive. It isn't at all. Given the burnout rate and the pace of the tech world, it's an apt (and even meaningful) description of the state of working in that industry. To presume/take offence at every single word is absolutely silly.
- smsm42 5y ago
  Did you know "server" is derived from Latin "servus", which literally means "slave"?
  - sterlind 5y ago
    and "slave" apparently comes from "Slav", due to the vast amounts of Slavs that were sold into slavery back in the day. ack! "servus" historically meant servant as well as slave though, iirc. imo etymology is less important than the current emotional valence of words, though. nobody's thinking of Slavic people being slurred by the word "slave" unless they dive into Merriam-Webster.
    - smsm42 5y ago
      > nobody's thinking of Slavic people being slurred Yet! Nobody thought about "master" being offensive either. But with enough activism, anything is possible. I eagerly await people trying to cancel "Masters" degree because it implies less credentialed people should be slaves to more credentialed ones.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Teever 5y ago
  How far do you want to take this? Would you get behind a movement to remove the term 'beat' from our lexicon? As in 'Tampa beats Kansas 31-9'
- ssmw 5y ago
  Slave is just a USA thing, like many others. Let the rest of the world be please! https://www.reddit.com/r/kubernetes/comments/o4h1fq/using_go_instead_of_yaml_part_2/h2i43gu https://www.reddit.com/r/kubernetes/comments/o4h1fq/using_go...
  - rybosome 5y ago
    And the holocaust was just a Europe thing, but I’d still choose not to use that word to describe a technical concept to an American audience.
    - zarzavat 5y ago
      What if the package name contained some kind of blasphemy, should that be allowed? Because this could be very offensive in many places. What irks people is the presumption that the entire world (or at least the entire Anglosphere) should learn American history and then alter their use of language to conform to it. And that it ends up being a kind of linguistic annexation of the Internet where everybody has to make an effort to not offend Americans but Americans make little effort to not offend the rest of the world.

rybosome 5y ago

It’s not a silly request. “Slave” is a very specific term that is highly emotionally charged. There are plenty of alternatives which convey the intended meaning just as clearly without the offensive connotation. Imagine if one were to insist on referring to “male” and “female” connectors as “cocks” and “fuckholes”. This is not a hill worth dying on.

ravar 5y ago
Yes slave is derived from the word slav as they were the victims of the brutal ottoman slave trade for hundreds of years. We should be nicer to our slavic bretheren.
klibertp 5y ago
That emotional charge is pretty specific to a single culture, while English is used by a large part of the world as second language. It's ok to try to right the wrongs you are guilty of, but please stop trying to project that guilt to other cultures. Where I live there were no slaves or slavery after ca. 1600 - and even before that it was foreign institution imported from the Mongols. That's enough time for emotions to settle down, really.
- rybosome 5y ago
  I choose not to use the term “gypped” in technical contexts even though I live in the US. I wouldn’t use “genocide” to describe a technical concept even though it’s been over a century since the US has taken part in one. Why not error on the side of decency?
  - klibertp 5y ago
    Sure, why not? If you name the default branch of your repository "main", I will happily submit PRs against it. I won't be doing that in my repos any time soon though, thank you very much. Why? Because that would suggest that I have a reason to do that, while I don't. It's your cross to carry, not mine. I have my own set of words that I need to be careful with if I want to err on the side of decency. You almost assuredly use some of them as if there was nothing offensive about them. To you, there isn't. I accept that. I'd be grateful if you reciprocated, instead of trying to impose your own cultural norms on me, thank you in advance.
    - rybosome 5y ago
      What are some examples of these words? I’d like to know for my own edification, this is not a challenge. If you actually want to be decent, then that means taking global perspectives into account if your communication is to a global audience. If I posted a tweet saying that my company is looking for “refugees from big tech”, that would be insensitive even though there aren’t refugees fleeing the US. Saying that the issue of refugees is not sensitive in my local cultural scope is not an excuse if the audience for my communication was larger than that.
      - knighthack 5y ago
        I don't even know how the phrase "refugees from big tech" could be offensive or insensitive. It isn't at all. Given the burnout rate and the pace of the tech world, it's an apt (and even meaningful) description of the state of working in that industry. To presume/take offence at every single word is absolutely silly.
smsm42 5y ago
Did you know "server" is derived from Latin "servus", which literally means "slave"?
- sterlind 5y ago
  and "slave" apparently comes from "Slav", due to the vast amounts of Slavs that were sold into slavery back in the day. ack! "servus" historically meant servant as well as slave though, iirc. imo etymology is less important than the current emotional valence of words, though. nobody's thinking of Slavic people being slurred by the word "slave" unless they dive into Merriam-Webster.
  - smsm42 5y ago
    > nobody's thinking of Slavic people being slurred Yet! Nobody thought about "master" being offensive either. But with enough activism, anything is possible. I eagerly await people trying to cancel "Masters" degree because it implies less credentialed people should be slaves to more credentialed ones.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Teever 5y ago
How far do you want to take this? Would you get behind a movement to remove the term 'beat' from our lexicon? As in 'Tampa beats Kansas 31-9'
ssmw 5y ago
Slave is just a USA thing, like many others. Let the rest of the world be please! https://www.reddit.com/r/kubernetes/comments/o4h1fq/using_go_instead_of_yaml_part_2/h2i43gu https://www.reddit.com/r/kubernetes/comments/o4h1fq/using_go...
- rybosome 5y ago
  And the holocaust was just a Europe thing, but I’d still choose not to use that word to describe a technical concept to an American audience.
  - zarzavat 5y ago
    What if the package name contained some kind of blasphemy, should that be allowed? Because this could be very offensive in many places. What irks people is the presumption that the entire world (or at least the entire Anglosphere) should learn American history and then alter their use of language to conform to it. And that it ends up being a kind of linguistic annexation of the Internet where everybody has to make an effort to not offend Americans but Americans make little effort to not offend the rest of the world.