5 ms·

Well, if we pretend that it's just this single instance, it probably isn't. But this is part of a cultural phenomenon, unless you want to argue that wokism doe

Well, if we pretend that it's just this single instance, it probably isn't. But this is part of a cultural phenomenon, unless you want to argue that wokism doesn't exist.

woodruffw 5y ago
This is what I meant by artificial engagement: we're now in the "complain about vague cultural phenomena" segment of the program. Besides, there's nothing particularly wrong with cooking on a Wok.
- cato_the_elder 5y ago
  > vague cultural phenomena It's not vague at all. > Besides, there's nothing particularly wrong with cooking on a Wok. Lol, I had to look up what a wok is. Blessings of learning English as a second language.
dragonwriter 5y ago
[flagged]
- smegsicle 5y ago
  > reflects no coherent ideology it sure is incoherent, but it sure is persistent
- cato_the_elder 5y ago
  That's certainly an argument you can make. I kinda agree with what you imply about the lack of logical coherence, but unfortunately that's not necessary for cultural movements. Don't you agree that there's a relationship between having pronouns in the bio, reading Ibram X. Kendi, being "intersectional", believing words are violence, and sporting purple hair?
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > I kinda agree with what you imply about the lack of logical coherence I didn't imply anything, I explicitly stated that the term “wokism” as currently used, doesn't refer to either an actual ideology, cultural phenomenon, or even a set of ideas or groups of people more connected than that they are things the dominant faction of the political Right disagrees with at the moment of the use of the label. > Don't you agree that there's a relationship between having pronouns in the bio, reading Ibram X. Kendi, being "intersectional", believing words are violence, and sporting purple hair? No, I don't. Believing (certain uses of) words are violence seems to be common across the political spectrum, though which uses of which words varies, purple hair is pretty orthogonal to politics (as is the more common feature used in this context, blue hair), intersectional isn't something a person can be, and while the first two things do correlate with political positions the Right opposes they (and the political positions they each correlate strongly with) don't correlate very strongly with each other. (In fact, that's a perennial complaint of the group that represents the intersection of those two communities.)
    - leereeves 5y ago
      I'm afraid you're wrong about this one. Let's review how the word was used a couple years ago: > In the six years since Brown’s death, “woke” has evolved into a single-word summation of leftist political ideology, centered on social justice politics and critical race theory. This framing of “woke” is bipartisan: It’s used as a shorthand for political progressiveness by the left, and as a denigration of leftist culture by the right. https://www.vox.com/culture/21437879/stay-woke-wokeness-history-origin-evolution-controversy https://www.vox.com/culture/21437879/stay-woke-wokeness-hist... That was written in 2020. Now, as Democrats fear a red wave in 2022, it seems they want to distance themselves from the ideas they embraced just two years ago, and some claim that "wokeness" is a fiction invented and used exclusively by the right, obscuring its true history: a term invented by BLM and used as "a shorthand for political progressiveness" by progressives themselves as recently as 2020. (We might almost overlook that two other terms Democrats are also trying to distance themselves from were casually used in that quote: "a single-word summation of leftist political ideology, centered on social justice politics and critical race theory". Before right-wing criticism of these ideas became overpowering, they were all widely embraced by the left.)
- psyc 5y ago
  This is the No True Hipster fallacy all over again. I am firmly on the left and I know damn well which cultural cluster “wokeism” refers to. And so do you. Saying it doesn’t exist is a transparent gaslighting tactic.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  I am far from alt right but I use woke-ism all the time. I believe in liberty and the first amendment with as few limits as possible. Woke-ism is an attempt to control thought and language by a minority of people, no matter how admirable their reasons are, it's wrong to try and control people through authoritarian systems of belligerance rather than education. You will never get the bigots to bend to your will and then there are people like me who don't mind using gender neutral terms when requested because I don't care what gender you want to be or who you want to have sex with or identify as, that's all cool with me, I think we're human first and foremost and equals, I will push back every time when someone tries to control me and says "this is the one and only way". I think LatinX was another one that is great way to prove one's point on this. It's fall from grace was kind of cathartic if you dislike woke-ism.

Well, if we pretend that it's just this single instance, it probably isn't. But this is part of a cultural phenomenon, unless you want to argue that wokism doesn't exist.

woodruffw 5y ago

This is what I meant by artificial engagement: we're now in the "complain about vague cultural phenomena" segment of the program. Besides, there's nothing particularly wrong with cooking on a Wok.

cato_the_elder 5y ago
> vague cultural phenomena It's not vague at all. > Besides, there's nothing particularly wrong with cooking on a Wok. Lol, I had to look up what a wok is. Blessings of learning English as a second language.

dragonwriter 5y ago

[flagged]

smegsicle 5y ago
> reflects no coherent ideology it sure is incoherent, but it sure is persistent
cato_the_elder 5y ago
That's certainly an argument you can make. I kinda agree with what you imply about the lack of logical coherence, but unfortunately that's not necessary for cultural movements. Don't you agree that there's a relationship between having pronouns in the bio, reading Ibram X. Kendi, being "intersectional", believing words are violence, and sporting purple hair?
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > I kinda agree with what you imply about the lack of logical coherence I didn't imply anything, I explicitly stated that the term “wokism” as currently used, doesn't refer to either an actual ideology, cultural phenomenon, or even a set of ideas or groups of people more connected than that they are things the dominant faction of the political Right disagrees with at the moment of the use of the label. > Don't you agree that there's a relationship between having pronouns in the bio, reading Ibram X. Kendi, being "intersectional", believing words are violence, and sporting purple hair? No, I don't. Believing (certain uses of) words are violence seems to be common across the political spectrum, though which uses of which words varies, purple hair is pretty orthogonal to politics (as is the more common feature used in this context, blue hair), intersectional isn't something a person can be, and while the first two things do correlate with political positions the Right opposes they (and the political positions they each correlate strongly with) don't correlate very strongly with each other. (In fact, that's a perennial complaint of the group that represents the intersection of those two communities.)
  - leereeves 5y ago
    I'm afraid you're wrong about this one. Let's review how the word was used a couple years ago: > In the six years since Brown’s death, “woke” has evolved into a single-word summation of leftist political ideology, centered on social justice politics and critical race theory. This framing of “woke” is bipartisan: It’s used as a shorthand for political progressiveness by the left, and as a denigration of leftist culture by the right. https://www.vox.com/culture/21437879/stay-woke-wokeness-history-origin-evolution-controversy https://www.vox.com/culture/21437879/stay-woke-wokeness-hist... That was written in 2020. Now, as Democrats fear a red wave in 2022, it seems they want to distance themselves from the ideas they embraced just two years ago, and some claim that "wokeness" is a fiction invented and used exclusively by the right, obscuring its true history: a term invented by BLM and used as "a shorthand for political progressiveness" by progressives themselves as recently as 2020. (We might almost overlook that two other terms Democrats are also trying to distance themselves from were casually used in that quote: "a single-word summation of leftist political ideology, centered on social justice politics and critical race theory". Before right-wing criticism of these ideas became overpowering, they were all widely embraced by the left.)
psyc 5y ago
This is the No True Hipster fallacy all over again. I am firmly on the left and I know damn well which cultural cluster “wokeism” refers to. And so do you. Saying it doesn’t exist is a transparent gaslighting tactic.
stjohnswarts 5y ago
I am far from alt right but I use woke-ism all the time. I believe in liberty and the first amendment with as few limits as possible. Woke-ism is an attempt to control thought and language by a minority of people, no matter how admirable their reasons are, it's wrong to try and control people through authoritarian systems of belligerance rather than education. You will never get the bigots to bend to your will and then there are people like me who don't mind using gender neutral terms when requested because I don't care what gender you want to be or who you want to have sex with or identify as, that's all cool with me, I think we're human first and foremost and equals, I will push back every time when someone tries to control me and says "this is the one and only way". I think LatinX was another one that is great way to prove one's point on this. It's fall from grace was kind of cathartic if you dislike woke-ism.