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I don't think crypto is a pyramid scheme and your statement is an opinion not a fact.

SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
> Putting a significant amount of money into something that the vast majority of "intelligent" people say is a scam (as you do), is reward for taking risk. I don't think this is any more a fact than my statement. I'm merely trying to point out that you seem to be saying it's ok to invest in what people perceive as a scam (my example was pyramid schemes) because it's an investment.
ALittleLight 5y ago
Literally the only way you can profit with crypto is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme.
- bluepnume 5y ago
  Literally the only way you can profit with real estate is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme. Literally the only way you can profit with stocks is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme.
  - Sebb767 5y ago
    > Literally the only way you can profit with real estate is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme. Except, of course, if you live in it, rent it out or use it as businesses asset. Good luck doing that with crypto. > Literally the only way you can profit with stocks is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme. Except, of course, that you as a shareholder can influence the direction of the company and earn dividends. Good luck doing that with crypto.
    - bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
      Actually you can rent out crypto (to short sellers).
      - lanstin 5y ago
        A nice example of how the winners in the gold rush aren’t the suckers but the people selling stuff to the suckers.
      - aaaaaaaaata 5y ago
        Or by staking for loans, other transactions.
    - bluepnume 5y ago
      What does that have to do with the original point? - Real estate has real-world use cases - Stocks have real-world use cases - Bitcoin has real-world use cases It's meaningless to describe any of these as pyramid schemes because "to profit you must be able to sell at a higher price to someone else". That's true of buying or selling anything.
  - kragen 5y ago
    You can live in real estate and get dividends from stocks. Cryptocurrencies are more similar to commodities: gold, wheat, coal. (You can consume wheat and coal, yes, but that consumes them and then you don't have them anymore; that's not profit.)
    - not_kurt_godel 5y ago
      Yes, except gold, wheat, and coal have inherent value as physical items whereas crypto does not.
      - kragen 5y ago
        Commodity traders couldn't care less, and the vast majority of the use of gold is purely commerce, unrelated to its inherent value for plating electrical contacts or coating mirrors.
      - uncletammy 5y ago
        You see no value in having a currency that can't be inflated on a whim by your government? As in, the printing of money that reduces the purchasing power of the money sitting in your bank account. Really?
        not_kurt_godel 5y ago
        Bitcoin is not and never can be currency.
        bluepnume 5y ago
        That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
        not_kurt_godel 5y ago
        What is the max number of transactions per second that Bitcoin can support?
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- vageli 5y ago
  > Literally the only way you can profit with crypto is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme. How does that differ from other commodities trading? The only way to profit in the futures market is to buy low and sell high, too, for instance.
  - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
    > differ from other commodities trading It doesn’t. Trading is zero sum. It supports the extraction, processing and delivery of useful things, however, which is positive sum.
    - someguydave 5y ago
      Trading is only zero sum at an instant in time and space. Moving or holding commodities can change the sum of the trade.
      - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
        > Trading is only zero sum at an instant in time and space. Moving or holding commodities can change the sum of the trade. Trading between financial participants is, cetiris paribus, always zero sum. Irrespective of the timeline. Buyer's gains are the seller's opportunity cost; buyer's losses were avoided by the seller. (Paribus violation is when parties have different funding costs.) Moving commodities around isn't trading per se; it's logistics. Again, value adding.
        someguydave 5y ago
        >Trading between financial participants is, cetiris paribus, always zero sum. Only if you consider the trade in the quantity of the goods traded, and not in a prevailing unit of accounting.
        JumpCrisscross 5y ago

> Putting a significant amount of money into something that the vast majority of "intelligent" people say is a scam (as you do), is reward for taking risk. I don't think this is any more a fact than my statement. I'm merely trying to point out that you seem to be saying it's ok to invest in what people perceive as a scam (my example was pyramid schemes) because it's an investment.

ALittleLight 5y ago

Literally the only way you can profit with crypto is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme.

bluepnume 5y ago
Literally the only way you can profit with real estate is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme. Literally the only way you can profit with stocks is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme.
- Sebb767 5y ago
  > Literally the only way you can profit with real estate is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme. Except, of course, if you live in it, rent it out or use it as businesses asset. Good luck doing that with crypto. > Literally the only way you can profit with stocks is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme. Except, of course, that you as a shareholder can influence the direction of the company and earn dividends. Good luck doing that with crypto.
  - bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
    Actually you can rent out crypto (to short sellers).
    - lanstin 5y ago
      A nice example of how the winners in the gold rush aren’t the suckers but the people selling stuff to the suckers.
    - aaaaaaaaata 5y ago
      Or by staking for loans, other transactions.
  - bluepnume 5y ago
    What does that have to do with the original point? - Real estate has real-world use cases - Stocks have real-world use cases - Bitcoin has real-world use cases It's meaningless to describe any of these as pyramid schemes because "to profit you must be able to sell at a higher price to someone else". That's true of buying or selling anything.
- kragen 5y ago
  You can live in real estate and get dividends from stocks. Cryptocurrencies are more similar to commodities: gold, wheat, coal. (You can consume wheat and coal, yes, but that consumes them and then you don't have them anymore; that's not profit.)
  - not_kurt_godel 5y ago
    Yes, except gold, wheat, and coal have inherent value as physical items whereas crypto does not.
    - kragen 5y ago
      Commodity traders couldn't care less, and the vast majority of the use of gold is purely commerce, unrelated to its inherent value for plating electrical contacts or coating mirrors.
    - uncletammy 5y ago
      You see no value in having a currency that can't be inflated on a whim by your government? As in, the printing of money that reduces the purchasing power of the money sitting in your bank account. Really?
      - not_kurt_godel 5y ago
        Bitcoin is not and never can be currency.
        bluepnume 5y ago
        That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
        not_kurt_godel 5y ago
        What is the max number of transactions per second that Bitcoin can support?
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vageli 5y ago
> Literally the only way you can profit with crypto is if people keep buying in at higher prices. It's the perfect instantiation of a pyramid scheme. How does that differ from other commodities trading? The only way to profit in the futures market is to buy low and sell high, too, for instance.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > differ from other commodities trading It doesn’t. Trading is zero sum. It supports the extraction, processing and delivery of useful things, however, which is positive sum.
  - someguydave 5y ago
    Trading is only zero sum at an instant in time and space. Moving or holding commodities can change the sum of the trade.
    - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
      > Trading is only zero sum at an instant in time and space. Moving or holding commodities can change the sum of the trade. Trading between financial participants is, cetiris paribus, always zero sum. Irrespective of the timeline. Buyer's gains are the seller's opportunity cost; buyer's losses were avoided by the seller. (Paribus violation is when parties have different funding costs.) Moving commodities around isn't trading per se; it's logistics. Again, value adding.
      - someguydave 5y ago
        >Trading between financial participants is, cetiris paribus, always zero sum. Only if you consider the trade in the quantity of the goods traded, and not in a prevailing unit of accounting.
        JumpCrisscross 5y ago