10 ms·

Is that the reason for the LBTQ+ friendly tag you can add in google maps?

by lom 5y ago

Spivak 5y ago
Yeah, it's honestly really nice to see when businesses add it because I don't then have to worry about showing up and having that awkward "oh. uhh, okay. guess i'll leave" moment. The flip side is also sad but ultimately useful, I know to avoid shops that proudly display the Trump, Let's Go Brandon, Blue Lives Matter, Confederate Flag, Don't Tread on Me, the one weird flag that's like fuck Biden but written with guns, or honestly the American flag. And look, I completely agree with the stance "those don't necessarily imply homophobia," you can hate Biden and love the gays, you can love America and the gays, plenty of my conservative friends do, but the kind of person who flies the flags at their home or business is on a whole different level.
- saimiam 5y ago
  As a legal alien who used to live in the States, I would avoid any establishment showing the American flag. It just felt like the place would be loudly and proudly nationalistic and as an alien, I would be more welcome elsewhere.
  - otterley 5y ago
    I’m sorry you felt that way. For most fellow Americans I know, displaying our flag is not intended to convey anti-immigrant or racist sentiment. It’s more often intended as an expression of support for the U.S. as our home and for freedom. Canadians proudly do the same, FWIW.
    - scarecrowbob 5y ago
      Most of the folks I know flying confederate flags think the same thing about that flag. Personally, I care less about what I mean when I write and more about how people might read my writing.
    - halostatue 5y ago
      Canadians mount flags far less frequently than Americans do, especially on private homes. There are neighbourhoods where nearly every single house has a flagpole with the American flag in it. In my ~4km x 4km area where I walk my dog regularly, I can think of one house that has a Canadian flag—and that’s the Kwakwaka’wakw design (https://www.canadiannativeflag.ca https://www.canadiannativeflag.ca). There are occasional flag decals, but many of them are also Pride variants of the Canadian flag. I see more Canadian flag decals on businesses (but usually in a group of decals, including pride flag decals, city decals, etc.) or maple leaf accents to business logos, in part because there is some signalling going on that "we are a Canadian-owned business" (even if it isn’t really true anymore, like Tim Hortons). I rarely see Canadian businesses flying a flag or mounting a flag in store. Canadians often have Canadian flag patches or decals on luggage &c. when travelling so that it’s a signal that ”we aren’t American” because we often get confused with Americans and treated poorly because the Ugly American Tourist stereotype exists, with reason. There’s likely to be a bit of a drop in flag flying because the signals have been sent by Canada’s white nationalists that the flag is theirs given their raucous and obnoxious displays in Coutts and Ottawa, which has left an even bigger distaste for overt nationalistic displays than Canadians usually show. (We are proud of being Canadian, but we’re not obnoxiously patriotic most of the time, and we are mostly disdainful of outright nationalists.) There’s one other point: it is seen as downright unAmerican for a politician to not be wearing an American flag pin on their lapel. The Canadian equivalent is not wearing one of those crappy disposable Legion poppies in early November (we’ve seriously had politicians called out for wearing an enamelled poppy).
- bena 5y ago
  Not to mention, given the choice between figuring out whether or not "this" one is ok or just going somewhere that doesn't display any markers co-opted by bigots, it's just easier to go somewhere else. No, not all X are Y, but if I'm going to have to spend time and effort to figure out if this X is Y when I could just not, I'm going to choose not. That's just easier for me.
- ben_w 5y ago
  > or honestly the American flag Huh, that’s kinda surprising. I’m not American, but always had the impression that Americans used the American flag like the British use CCTV cameras — putting them everywhere essentially decoratively, because everyone else does, even in situations where they don’t add anything. (I absolutely understand the problem with the Confederate flag: that’s much weirder than say the English (i.e. not U.K.) flag, which itself seems to only be used in the two contexts of football and nationalism).
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    Very much depends on the region. A lot of people, even people appreciative of our country, have come to view nationalism as part and parcel with American evangelical political leanings.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  This whole comment is just contributing to the toxic divisiveness that's permeating our country > or honestly the American flag this is especially disheartening. As a child of an immigrant family, one of the first things I'm going to do when I buy a house is proudly fly an American flag. I love our country and there are many reasons to be proud of it and its flag, and they're the reasons so many people want to immigrate here in the first place
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    I am also a child of an immigrant family, but my prior probabilities put me on high alert around people who egregiously use the US flag (or flag of any nation at this point). Maybe putting one on your house is OK, but the more fanatic you seem, the more on alert I am. Most normal people I meet just use it on 4th of July or something, but if you are draping yourself, your business, your car in it, then I assume you have a higher likelihood of being tribal for a tribe I am not part of. And my experience is the people who fly the flag the most are the first to cheat on taxes and try to take advantage of others in society (especially not in their tribe), and then use that “patriotism” as a veil to hide behind. Same thing with all the other signals Spivak mentioned.
    - skeeter2020 5y ago
      It's important we don't confuse Patriotism with Nationalism. The former is about the individual and generally positive & good; the latter is faceless and evil.
      - cycomanic 5y ago
        Seriously I don't see any difference between patriotism and nationalism. Patriotism to me is mainly a veil to hide behind, so that one can argue that the kind of nationalism one self practices is not really nationalism. An example is that many even quite left leaning people in the US (but also other countries) often start criticism of US politics with "I love my country, I believe it's the best country in the world..." how is that not nationalistic? You literally are saying you find all other countries inferior. Also what does it mean to love your country? It's completely abstract, do you love the people (I assume you certainly don't love every one), do you love the politics? What concrete thing do you love? Maybe I'm colored by growing up in Germany during a time when (for very good reason) patriotism was frowned upon because we saw what it lead to. Maybe it's because I've lived in 4 countries now and I feel much more like a world citizen (even though I liked living in some countries more than others), but I find the concept of patriotism just doesn't lead to anything positive.
- yamazakiwi 5y ago
  This is a useful model. It's not perfect obviously, but I and a lot of my gay friends do the same thing. I'm not going to put myself in danger just because you feel that I need to test the waters with self-proclaimed "patriots" and their associates. Sometimes you'll be ok temporarily in those spaces until one of their friends/family shows up who's not and it becomes a problem. Generally, you don't have to wait that long.
88913527 5y ago
Not all have the option, but many move to LGBT friendly areas. I can walk around in my neighborhood and walk into any establishment and I know it won't be an issue. Like others have said, the ease of mind in not having to check is nice. It's a temporary reprieve from the otherwise default state of having to be mindful. For people who don't have that option, it's good to have tags, for example if you're traveling somewhere rural or an unfamiliar area.

Is that the reason for the LBTQ+ friendly tag you can add in google maps?

by lom 5y ago

Is that the reason for the LBTQ+ friendly tag you can add in google maps?

Yeah, it's honestly really nice to see when businesses add it because I don't then have to worry about showing up and having that awkward "oh. uhh, okay. guess i'll leave" moment. The flip side is also sad but ultimately useful, I know to avoid shops that proudly display the Trump, Let's Go Brandon, Blue Lives Matter, Confederate Flag, Don't Tread on Me, the one weird flag that's like fuck Biden but written with guns, or honestly the American flag. And look, I completely agree with the stance "those don't necessarily imply homophobia," you can hate Biden and love the gays, you can love America and the gays, plenty of my conservative friends do, but the kind of person who flies the flags at their home or business is on a whole different level.

saimiam 5y ago
As a legal alien who used to live in the States, I would avoid any establishment showing the American flag. It just felt like the place would be loudly and proudly nationalistic and as an alien, I would be more welcome elsewhere.
- otterley 5y ago
  I’m sorry you felt that way. For most fellow Americans I know, displaying our flag is not intended to convey anti-immigrant or racist sentiment. It’s more often intended as an expression of support for the U.S. as our home and for freedom. Canadians proudly do the same, FWIW.
  - scarecrowbob 5y ago
    Most of the folks I know flying confederate flags think the same thing about that flag. Personally, I care less about what I mean when I write and more about how people might read my writing.
  - halostatue 5y ago
    Canadians mount flags far less frequently than Americans do, especially on private homes. There are neighbourhoods where nearly every single house has a flagpole with the American flag in it. In my ~4km x 4km area where I walk my dog regularly, I can think of one house that has a Canadian flag—and that’s the Kwakwaka’wakw design (https://www.canadiannativeflag.ca https://www.canadiannativeflag.ca). There are occasional flag decals, but many of them are also Pride variants of the Canadian flag. I see more Canadian flag decals on businesses (but usually in a group of decals, including pride flag decals, city decals, etc.) or maple leaf accents to business logos, in part because there is some signalling going on that "we are a Canadian-owned business" (even if it isn’t really true anymore, like Tim Hortons). I rarely see Canadian businesses flying a flag or mounting a flag in store. Canadians often have Canadian flag patches or decals on luggage &c. when travelling so that it’s a signal that ”we aren’t American” because we often get confused with Americans and treated poorly because the Ugly American Tourist stereotype exists, with reason. There’s likely to be a bit of a drop in flag flying because the signals have been sent by Canada’s white nationalists that the flag is theirs given their raucous and obnoxious displays in Coutts and Ottawa, which has left an even bigger distaste for overt nationalistic displays than Canadians usually show. (We are proud of being Canadian, but we’re not obnoxiously patriotic most of the time, and we are mostly disdainful of outright nationalists.) There’s one other point: it is seen as downright unAmerican for a politician to not be wearing an American flag pin on their lapel. The Canadian equivalent is not wearing one of those crappy disposable Legion poppies in early November (we’ve seriously had politicians called out for wearing an enamelled poppy).
bena 5y ago
Not to mention, given the choice between figuring out whether or not "this" one is ok or just going somewhere that doesn't display any markers co-opted by bigots, it's just easier to go somewhere else. No, not all X are Y, but if I'm going to have to spend time and effort to figure out if this X is Y when I could just not, I'm going to choose not. That's just easier for me.
ben_w 5y ago
> or honestly the American flag Huh, that’s kinda surprising. I’m not American, but always had the impression that Americans used the American flag like the British use CCTV cameras — putting them everywhere essentially decoratively, because everyone else does, even in situations where they don’t add anything. (I absolutely understand the problem with the Confederate flag: that’s much weirder than say the English (i.e. not U.K.) flag, which itself seems to only be used in the two contexts of football and nationalism).
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  Very much depends on the region. A lot of people, even people appreciative of our country, have come to view nationalism as part and parcel with American evangelical political leanings.
silicon2401 5y ago
This whole comment is just contributing to the toxic divisiveness that's permeating our country > or honestly the American flag this is especially disheartening. As a child of an immigrant family, one of the first things I'm going to do when I buy a house is proudly fly an American flag. I love our country and there are many reasons to be proud of it and its flag, and they're the reasons so many people want to immigrate here in the first place
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  I am also a child of an immigrant family, but my prior probabilities put me on high alert around people who egregiously use the US flag (or flag of any nation at this point). Maybe putting one on your house is OK, but the more fanatic you seem, the more on alert I am. Most normal people I meet just use it on 4th of July or something, but if you are draping yourself, your business, your car in it, then I assume you have a higher likelihood of being tribal for a tribe I am not part of. And my experience is the people who fly the flag the most are the first to cheat on taxes and try to take advantage of others in society (especially not in their tribe), and then use that “patriotism” as a veil to hide behind. Same thing with all the other signals Spivak mentioned.
  - skeeter2020 5y ago
    It's important we don't confuse Patriotism with Nationalism. The former is about the individual and generally positive & good; the latter is faceless and evil.
    - cycomanic 5y ago
      Seriously I don't see any difference between patriotism and nationalism. Patriotism to me is mainly a veil to hide behind, so that one can argue that the kind of nationalism one self practices is not really nationalism. An example is that many even quite left leaning people in the US (but also other countries) often start criticism of US politics with "I love my country, I believe it's the best country in the world..." how is that not nationalistic? You literally are saying you find all other countries inferior. Also what does it mean to love your country? It's completely abstract, do you love the people (I assume you certainly don't love every one), do you love the politics? What concrete thing do you love? Maybe I'm colored by growing up in Germany during a time when (for very good reason) patriotism was frowned upon because we saw what it lead to. Maybe it's because I've lived in 4 countries now and I feel much more like a world citizen (even though I liked living in some countries more than others), but I find the concept of patriotism just doesn't lead to anything positive.
yamazakiwi 5y ago
This is a useful model. It's not perfect obviously, but I and a lot of my gay friends do the same thing. I'm not going to put myself in danger just because you feel that I need to test the waters with self-proclaimed "patriots" and their associates. Sometimes you'll be ok temporarily in those spaces until one of their friends/family shows up who's not and it becomes a problem. Generally, you don't have to wait that long.

88913527 5y ago

Not all have the option, but many move to LGBT friendly areas. I can walk around in my neighborhood and walk into any establishment and I know it won't be an issue. Like others have said, the ease of mind in not having to check is nice. It's a temporary reprieve from the otherwise default state of having to be mindful. For people who don't have that option, it's good to have tags, for example if you're traveling somewhere rural or an unfamiliar area.