3 ms·

I don't get the double standards. Morocco has proposed a referendum, the area is not militarized (only the borders/sand wall but that's like any country with bo

I don't get the double standards. Morocco has proposed a referendum, the area is not militarized (only the borders/sand wall but that's like any country with borders). In the other hand, you have Barcelona where people VOTED to for independence, they got brutalized by the state, and the West and Europe applauded. Basque are in a similar situation too (Allah help them). Show me any display of violence in Sahara, before you gonna go claim its censored keep in mind that UN's MINURSO has full access to Sahara and they have the RIGHT to monitor the situation. Some people in Sahara wanna be with Morocco, others don't. Solution is voting, and we are for it. There is no argument for separating a country just because when it was colonized the Sahara part was colonized by Spain while the rest by France.

hutzlibu 5y ago
"Solution is voting, and we are for it." I applaud that stance, but as far as I know, it does not reflect the stance of your government. And you are very right, that the same right should apply for the catalans, basque as well as any people felling oppressed and not represented from their government.
- deleted 5y ago
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- danamit 5y ago
  It's literally the stance of my government, we literally have a UN sub-org here called MINURSO (The United Nations Mission for the Referendum in Western Sahara), my government proposed the referendum, my government allowed MINURSO in , my gov protects them, the so called Sahrawi gov are in Algeria and its prominent members spent all their lives working as ambassadors in other countries and they are refusing to have the referendum. It is a big issue when you talk about something and defend it strongly with no clue. PS: Morocco in the 60s had many issues in reality, power struggle between the monarchy and parties, 3 army coups that failed, separating in Rif and Sahara by those who fought colonizers and seeing themselves not getting any power. Sahara was an issue like the many other issues, it only lasted because of support by the Eastern Block. Today, in reality, the struggle ended.
  - Al-Khwarizmi 5y ago
    You conveniently omit the part about the Moroccan government funding settlement schemes to move Moroccan population to the occupied parts of the Sahara. So now, the majority of the population living there are actually Moroccan settlers, and Morocco wants them to have a vote. Come on, you shouldn't post such one-sided propaganda in HN. The Wikipedia entry for MINURSO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Mission_for_the_Referendum_in_Western_Sahara https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Mission_for_the... and the Baker plans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_Plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_Plan contain relatively neutral accounts.
    - danamit 5y ago
      How did Morocco did that? There is 2 types of intensives to move to Sahara that exist right now or existed before: 1- Cheaper prices over there, basic necessities are subsidized, gas is way cheaper. This apply to everyone, people who lived there since forever and those who did come from elsewhere. That's normal no? 2- Social welfare, 3 times the grant you'd get as a non-Sahrawi student (while studying in Morocco), and similar advantages for Sahrawi people. This apply only to Sahrawi people, I will compare Western Sahara with Morocco to Chechnya with Russia, it's a net negative on us, costing us so much, but the gov is okay with paying to keep that part of land. Show me any instance of Israeli-style settlements happening in Sahara. You will only be sent there if you are: - Teacher, Doctor... but you might be sent anywhere in Morocco its arbitrary. - Police man, same thing. - Gendarme, same thing. - Soldier (you get paid more while in Sahara, understandable considering the potential risks, still soldier hate it cuz it's a fucking hot desert and many leave once they are relocated there) Other than a public sector job like that, there is no other intensive to go there, basically you go there forced. I am not spreading propaganda, just sharing my point of view. I do not care about Sahara.
    - mardifoufs 5y ago
      Do we do that for every referendum? Should only native catalonians be able to vote in a referendum for independent Catalonia? Do we let anglo canadians vote living in quebec vote for Québec's independence ? Moving from madrid to Barcelona does not make one a Castillian settler. Especially considering how historically, migrations from and into the sahara were extremely common. My own family, on the side of my mother is sahraoui (half from what is now western sahara, and the other half from southern morocco) and used to migrate every few years from Mauritania to the Agadir area and vice versa. Southern moroccan arabic tribes are almost indistinguishable from sahraoui tribes. The line is so blurry much more so than with even between southern and northern moroccans. The language is the same, the customs are very similar, etc. The concept of an independant and separate western sahara was literally a colonial construct that suited spain very well. It would've probably died off if Algeria didn't prop up (what was an irrelevant fringe group like Polisario) to destabilize it's regional rival.

hutzlibu 5y ago

"Solution is voting, and we are for it." I applaud that stance, but as far as I know, it does not reflect the stance of your government. And you are very right, that the same right should apply for the catalans, basque as well as any people felling oppressed and not represented from their government.

deleted 5y ago
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danamit 5y ago
It's literally the stance of my government, we literally have a UN sub-org here called MINURSO (The United Nations Mission for the Referendum in Western Sahara), my government proposed the referendum, my government allowed MINURSO in , my gov protects them, the so called Sahrawi gov are in Algeria and its prominent members spent all their lives working as ambassadors in other countries and they are refusing to have the referendum. It is a big issue when you talk about something and defend it strongly with no clue. PS: Morocco in the 60s had many issues in reality, power struggle between the monarchy and parties, 3 army coups that failed, separating in Rif and Sahara by those who fought colonizers and seeing themselves not getting any power. Sahara was an issue like the many other issues, it only lasted because of support by the Eastern Block. Today, in reality, the struggle ended.
- Al-Khwarizmi 5y ago
  You conveniently omit the part about the Moroccan government funding settlement schemes to move Moroccan population to the occupied parts of the Sahara. So now, the majority of the population living there are actually Moroccan settlers, and Morocco wants them to have a vote. Come on, you shouldn't post such one-sided propaganda in HN. The Wikipedia entry for MINURSO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Mission_for_the_Referendum_in_Western_Sahara https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Mission_for_the... and the Baker plans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_Plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_Plan contain relatively neutral accounts.
  - danamit 5y ago
    How did Morocco did that? There is 2 types of intensives to move to Sahara that exist right now or existed before: 1- Cheaper prices over there, basic necessities are subsidized, gas is way cheaper. This apply to everyone, people who lived there since forever and those who did come from elsewhere. That's normal no? 2- Social welfare, 3 times the grant you'd get as a non-Sahrawi student (while studying in Morocco), and similar advantages for Sahrawi people. This apply only to Sahrawi people, I will compare Western Sahara with Morocco to Chechnya with Russia, it's a net negative on us, costing us so much, but the gov is okay with paying to keep that part of land. Show me any instance of Israeli-style settlements happening in Sahara. You will only be sent there if you are: - Teacher, Doctor... but you might be sent anywhere in Morocco its arbitrary. - Police man, same thing. - Gendarme, same thing. - Soldier (you get paid more while in Sahara, understandable considering the potential risks, still soldier hate it cuz it's a fucking hot desert and many leave once they are relocated there) Other than a public sector job like that, there is no other intensive to go there, basically you go there forced. I am not spreading propaganda, just sharing my point of view. I do not care about Sahara.
  - mardifoufs 5y ago
    Do we do that for every referendum? Should only native catalonians be able to vote in a referendum for independent Catalonia? Do we let anglo canadians vote living in quebec vote for Québec's independence ? Moving from madrid to Barcelona does not make one a Castillian settler. Especially considering how historically, migrations from and into the sahara were extremely common. My own family, on the side of my mother is sahraoui (half from what is now western sahara, and the other half from southern morocco) and used to migrate every few years from Mauritania to the Agadir area and vice versa. Southern moroccan arabic tribes are almost indistinguishable from sahraoui tribes. The line is so blurry much more so than with even between southern and northern moroccans. The language is the same, the customs are very similar, etc. The concept of an independant and separate western sahara was literally a colonial construct that suited spain very well. It would've probably died off if Algeria didn't prop up (what was an irrelevant fringe group like Polisario) to destabilize it's regional rival.