That may be a very uncharitable reply to and about edgyquant, but I'll go with the more charitable interpretation that it's a realistic observation about unspec

That may be a very uncharitable reply to and about edgyquant, but I'll go with the more charitable interpretation that it's a realistic observation about unspecified others; those who fixate on one or two historic parallels and leap to the conclusion that "OMG this is exactly the same, our realm[1] is 100% for certain going to fall just like Rome in 471!". From an onlooker's perspective, it feels like you guys are pretty much in what used to be called "violent agreement" on Usenet, when flamewars broke out between participants who actually agreed on almost everything, but through miscommunication didn't realise this. I think if one[2] of you could just a bit more explicitly acknowledge that you are not saying "OMG this is EXACTLY the same, America is 100% for certain going to fall just like Rome in 471!" but only "there are quite a few parallels here, here, and there, so it might well behoove us to keep an eye on this, this, and that"; and/or the other could apply this more charitable reading -- which seems to be the precise point they're arguing -- to what the first is saying, then it looks to me like there really isn't any (or at least, not much) actual disagreement between you at all. Or is it just me that's totally misreading one or both of you? Hey BTW, thanks for that second more caustic formulation of the saying; hadn't seen that one before. I may, when sufficiently exasperated, use it in future... But there is actually a bit of optimism to it: While you can't cure stupidity, you may be able to at least alleviate ignorance -- one issue and one fool at a time. (After the fool in question has been led to knowledge on issue X, he won't need to think about it for himself any more; while still in general a fool, hopefully he won't, armed with newfound knowledge as he now is, act like one on this issue in the future.) __ [1]: Not being an American, "America is going to fall...!" doesn't have the same direct relevance for me, but I can see the same parallels being applied to other realms -- and AFAIK, they have been used like that about lots of nations, since about forever. [2]: nobody9999? Not sure; possibly getting who is on which side of the argument mixed up since I see only the comment I'm directly replying to on this input screen. Could be the other way around.