4 ms·

why does this happen? Our technology is magnitudes more advanced, we have better preexisting infrastructure, materials, measuring equipment, yet the nation with

why does this happen? Our technology is magnitudes more advanced, we have better preexisting infrastructure, materials, measuring equipment, yet the nation with the world's most powerful economy doesn't hold a candle to it's past achievements.

ummonk 5y ago
Inflation adjustment takes into account the advancements though. The comparison would look a little better if we adjusted for median hourly wages instead of adjusting for inflation.
pixl97 5y ago
Because it's not a technology problem. In general it's a political and regulatory problem. There's a term for this, but I cant think of it at the moment.
paxys 5y ago
Because we have spent decades retooling our entire economy to send manufacturing and heavy industry to cheaper countries. Get an entire Chinese construction crew to come build a bridge in San Francisco under their own labor/safety/environmental laws and they will show you that early-mid 1900s efficiency.
- babyshake 5y ago
  And we don't do this because of unions?
  - Olreich 5y ago
    No, it’s because of everything. Increased specialization of our construction crews, increased oversight and regulation, increased labor costs due to improved working conditions, improved safety requirements reducing productivity, increased shipping and manufacturing time for increasingly specialized tools and building materials, reduced working hours to cause less impact to traffic and noise, increased sync points to inspect the work and ensure it’s good before moving to the next step, mechanization reducing the number of people that can work at one time because the equipment is large and expensive, increased project complexity because complex materials and construction practices are more efficient in specific ways, etc.
- stretchwithme 5y ago
  But it could be tofu-dreg construction and be more likely to fall over.
  - jonobird1 5y ago
    That's his entire point
- wazoox 5y ago
  Exactly that. In France the new EPR nuclear reactor has been 15 years in the making and should (hopefully) start in 2023. The Chinese built 2 of these in 9 years. As some engineer from Framatome overseeing the project said, "they achieve in 3 days what Bouygues (the French contractor) does in 3 months".
ihaveajob 5y ago
For starters, it's no longer politically viable to expect 11 people to die during the construction of a bridge. To avoid that, there's a lot of regulation in place. And a lot more that probably got in for other reasons.
- jljljl 5y ago
  Using the actuarial value of a human life, those 11 deaths would add $83M-100M to the costs (assuming the costs aren’t already fully baked in to the cost added above), which would put the Golden Gate Bridge over its budget.
- Swizec 5y ago
  To be fair, the Golden Gate Bridge project is famous for its safety record and care given to the safety of its crews during construction. It was one of the first bridges ever built with safety nets during construction. > If there’s one construction job that set the modern standards for work site safety precautions, it is the construction of the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. When construction on this bridge began in 1933, it was the first suspension bridge supported by a tower in the ocean and surrounded by harsh weather and water conditions. > Before this project bridge construction workers, or “bridgemen,” had been considered reckless daredevils who worked without any safety precautions. They had to be fearless to climb the high steel and deal with the rugged weather and risky footing. The Golden Gate Bridge was built during the Great Depression – when 1 in 4 Americans was unemployed – and despite the risks, workers applied in droves. > /../ > Even with these precautions, 11 men died during construction – including 10 who lost their lives when a section of scaffold fell through the safety net. However, there were 28 worker fatalities during the construction of the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge. Strauss’ safety regulations can be reasonably credited with saving many lives and setting a new worksite safety standard. He proved to the world that safety gear saves lives. https://www.fixfastusa.com/news-blog/golden-gate-bridge-changed-safety-standards/ https://www.fixfastusa.com/news-blog/golden-gate-bridge-chan...
- greggman3 5y ago
  I'm pretty confident Japan gets shit done 5-10x faster than SF/LA/USA and people don't die building it.
ynniv 5y ago
Things get done quickly when people care about getting them done quickly. As far as I can tell, it's as simple as that.

ummonk 5y ago

Inflation adjustment takes into account the advancements though. The comparison would look a little better if we adjusted for median hourly wages instead of adjusting for inflation.

pixl97 5y ago

Because it's not a technology problem. In general it's a political and regulatory problem. There's a term for this, but I cant think of it at the moment.

paxys 5y ago

Because we have spent decades retooling our entire economy to send manufacturing and heavy industry to cheaper countries. Get an entire Chinese construction crew to come build a bridge in San Francisco under their own labor/safety/environmental laws and they will show you that early-mid 1900s efficiency.

babyshake 5y ago
And we don't do this because of unions?
- Olreich 5y ago
  No, it’s because of everything. Increased specialization of our construction crews, increased oversight and regulation, increased labor costs due to improved working conditions, improved safety requirements reducing productivity, increased shipping and manufacturing time for increasingly specialized tools and building materials, reduced working hours to cause less impact to traffic and noise, increased sync points to inspect the work and ensure it’s good before moving to the next step, mechanization reducing the number of people that can work at one time because the equipment is large and expensive, increased project complexity because complex materials and construction practices are more efficient in specific ways, etc.
stretchwithme 5y ago
But it could be tofu-dreg construction and be more likely to fall over.
- jonobird1 5y ago
  That's his entire point
wazoox 5y ago
Exactly that. In France the new EPR nuclear reactor has been 15 years in the making and should (hopefully) start in 2023. The Chinese built 2 of these in 9 years. As some engineer from Framatome overseeing the project said, "they achieve in 3 days what Bouygues (the French contractor) does in 3 months".

ihaveajob 5y ago

For starters, it's no longer politically viable to expect 11 people to die during the construction of a bridge. To avoid that, there's a lot of regulation in place. And a lot more that probably got in for other reasons.

jljljl 5y ago
Using the actuarial value of a human life, those 11 deaths would add $83M-100M to the costs (assuming the costs aren’t already fully baked in to the cost added above), which would put the Golden Gate Bridge over its budget.
Swizec 5y ago
To be fair, the Golden Gate Bridge project is famous for its safety record and care given to the safety of its crews during construction. It was one of the first bridges ever built with safety nets during construction. > If there’s one construction job that set the modern standards for work site safety precautions, it is the construction of the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. When construction on this bridge began in 1933, it was the first suspension bridge supported by a tower in the ocean and surrounded by harsh weather and water conditions. > Before this project bridge construction workers, or “bridgemen,” had been considered reckless daredevils who worked without any safety precautions. They had to be fearless to climb the high steel and deal with the rugged weather and risky footing. The Golden Gate Bridge was built during the Great Depression – when 1 in 4 Americans was unemployed – and despite the risks, workers applied in droves. > /../ > Even with these precautions, 11 men died during construction – including 10 who lost their lives when a section of scaffold fell through the safety net. However, there were 28 worker fatalities during the construction of the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge. Strauss’ safety regulations can be reasonably credited with saving many lives and setting a new worksite safety standard. He proved to the world that safety gear saves lives. https://www.fixfastusa.com/news-blog/golden-gate-bridge-changed-safety-standards/ https://www.fixfastusa.com/news-blog/golden-gate-bridge-chan...
greggman3 5y ago
I'm pretty confident Japan gets shit done 5-10x faster than SF/LA/USA and people don't die building it.

ynniv 5y ago

Things get done quickly when people care about getting them done quickly. As far as I can tell, it's as simple as that.