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Is it any surprise meetings around this topic are contentions? Fauci was receiving credible death threats and even on this topic thread here there are a number

by nl 5y ago

Is it any surprise meetings around this topic are contentions? Fauci was receiving credible death threats and even on this topic thread here there are a number of dead comments with comments similar to (and I quote): Fauci must be executed for us to move forward. The idea that people voice approval for executing people they disagree with is so repugnant and contrary to the idea of civil discourse I don't find it surprising people start yelling in science meetings about the topic.

323 5y ago
Hypothetically speaking, if it is ever proved that SARS-CoV-2 was indeed leaked from a lab, and that the people working there are guilty of gross negligence and the evading of gain of function controls, what do you think the punishment should be? Considering ~20 million world wide excess deaths. Or should they just be forgiven because they were scientists with good intentions.
- hallway_monitor 5y ago
  - joebob42 5y ago
    I'm not personally in favor of sizing punishment based on the outcome as opposed to based on the action. I'm not sure how it serves society other than some sort of sense of vindication to kill all these people.
- nickff 5y ago
  The even bigger (to me) question would be what level of liability would be attributed to people who granted funding or otherwise supported the work. Would they be charged with 20MM counts of contributory negligence? This situation does seem to have been “foreseeable” in the legal sense.
- nl 5y ago
  What has that got to do with anything I said?
- lupire 5y ago
  This wasn't a single scientist or conspiracy, even in the worst case. This was a systemic problem. The US President promoted the virus spread because it hurt NY and NJ more than the South. If you execute everyone negligent, society will collapsed. And then when you look at the negligent executions, more.
goodluckchuck 5y ago
Millions of people have died over the past couple of years. I think it’s important to know why. If someone released this plague on purpose, then it would be the clearest case for the death penalty that has ever occurred. Do you honestly disagree?
- brazzledazzle 5y ago
  Engineering this virus intentionally for research purposes and releasing it on purpose are very different things. If we still haven’t demonstrated the former conclusively why are we even discussing what the consequences should be for the latter?
  - goodluckchuck 5y ago
    Why do you suggest that hasn’t been proved conclusively? It’s been more than two years no one has located the original pool (and we’ve been testing huge numbers of bat populations) or offered a plausible explanations for how the virus could be anything other than a bioweapon. Essentially none of the virus’s main mutations are things that could have occurred without human involvement and certainly not on the timescale since its last common ancestor.
  - 0xy 5y ago
    It's a distinction without a difference. The level of negligence required to have it leak from a lab rises to the level of culpability. If you knowingly drive a car with no brakes and kill someone, how is it less bad than driving a functional car and killing someone on purpose? They knew the Wuhan labs had massive safety issues, from years prior to the pandemic. They knew GoF research was risky, and did it anyway. They knew covering it up was criminal behavior, yet did it anyway.
    - brazzledazzle 5y ago
      Executing someone for negligence is barbaric.
- toss1 5y ago
pvarangot 5y ago
So I don't think a single person is to blame for the COVID-19 pandemic. I think it was bad (and maybe even happened at all!) because of a systemic failure of the scientific medical community. Now, if you believed a single person or a small group of persons where to blame for it, you don't think they should be executed? I think it's a valid position to have. It's not mine, but I wouldn't censor it or call it contentious. I'm willing to personally kill someone for way less than that. I just don't think the someone to blame for the pandemic exists, but if I did yeah I would think they deserve to die.
cinquemb 5y ago
Well, only to be expected when people fuck with peoples livelihoods to the degree things have evolved, either thru gross negligence or explicit intent… There's a lot of people in power all over the world who have made decisions these past few years and it won't be surprising when people seek retribution (some of which who will seek for it to be payable in such decision makers blood). And it could be worse, if the aggrieved are not satiated (within or outside the rule of law), people may seek retribution payable by such decision makers friends and families… metadata trails left all over the place would make such easy at scale…

by nl 5y ago

323 5y ago

Hypothetically speaking, if it is ever proved that SARS-CoV-2 was indeed leaked from a lab, and that the people working there are guilty of gross negligence and the evading of gain of function controls, what do you think the punishment should be? Considering ~20 million world wide excess deaths. Or should they just be forgiven because they were scientists with good intentions.

hallway_monitor 5y ago
- joebob42 5y ago
  I'm not personally in favor of sizing punishment based on the outcome as opposed to based on the action. I'm not sure how it serves society other than some sort of sense of vindication to kill all these people.
nickff 5y ago
The even bigger (to me) question would be what level of liability would be attributed to people who granted funding or otherwise supported the work. Would they be charged with 20MM counts of contributory negligence? This situation does seem to have been “foreseeable” in the legal sense.
nl 5y ago
What has that got to do with anything I said?
lupire 5y ago
This wasn't a single scientist or conspiracy, even in the worst case. This was a systemic problem. The US President promoted the virus spread because it hurt NY and NJ more than the South. If you execute everyone negligent, society will collapsed. And then when you look at the negligent executions, more.

goodluckchuck 5y ago

Millions of people have died over the past couple of years. I think it’s important to know why. If someone released this plague on purpose, then it would be the clearest case for the death penalty that has ever occurred. Do you honestly disagree?

brazzledazzle 5y ago
Engineering this virus intentionally for research purposes and releasing it on purpose are very different things. If we still haven’t demonstrated the former conclusively why are we even discussing what the consequences should be for the latter?
- goodluckchuck 5y ago
  Why do you suggest that hasn’t been proved conclusively? It’s been more than two years no one has located the original pool (and we’ve been testing huge numbers of bat populations) or offered a plausible explanations for how the virus could be anything other than a bioweapon. Essentially none of the virus’s main mutations are things that could have occurred without human involvement and certainly not on the timescale since its last common ancestor.
- 0xy 5y ago
  It's a distinction without a difference. The level of negligence required to have it leak from a lab rises to the level of culpability. If you knowingly drive a car with no brakes and kill someone, how is it less bad than driving a functional car and killing someone on purpose? They knew the Wuhan labs had massive safety issues, from years prior to the pandemic. They knew GoF research was risky, and did it anyway. They knew covering it up was criminal behavior, yet did it anyway.
  - brazzledazzle 5y ago
    Executing someone for negligence is barbaric.
toss1 5y ago

pvarangot 5y ago

So I don't think a single person is to blame for the COVID-19 pandemic. I think it was bad (and maybe even happened at all!) because of a systemic failure of the scientific medical community. Now, if you believed a single person or a small group of persons where to blame for it, you don't think they should be executed? I think it's a valid position to have. It's not mine, but I wouldn't censor it or call it contentious. I'm willing to personally kill someone for way less than that. I just don't think the someone to blame for the pandemic exists, but if I did yeah I would think they deserve to die.

cinquemb 5y ago

Well, only to be expected when people fuck with peoples livelihoods to the degree things have evolved, either thru gross negligence or explicit intent… There's a lot of people in power all over the world who have made decisions these past few years and it won't be surprising when people seek retribution (some of which who will seek for it to be payable in such decision makers blood). And it could be worse, if the aggrieved are not satiated (within or outside the rule of law), people may seek retribution payable by such decision makers friends and families… metadata trails left all over the place would make such easy at scale…