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> Not sure how you can use an asset whose price is fluctuating so wildly (and is correlated/anti-correlated to indicators and trends having little to do with y

> Not sure how you can use an asset whose price is fluctuating so wildly (and is correlated/anti-correlated to indicators and trends having little to do with your local government) as an effective hedge against incompetent/corrupt government. If you don't plan on leaving your country, useful land is a much better hedge. Other than that, the thought is that you can always flee your country with a digital wallet. IMO crypto is a terrible "societal collapse"/"dollar collapse"/"fleeing authoritarianism" for Americans. A much better hedge is a set of skills that allow you to easily emigrate, a globally distributed personal+professional network, and a portion of your portfolio held as hard assets outside the reach of your country (eg a new life startup fund held as physical currency in another country outside their banking system -- or a personal network that has the same effect). But that's a very difficult set of things to cultivate for most people.

Proudmuslim 5y ago
Crypto isn't supposed to replace the hedges you mentioned- it's supposed to complement them.
- mcguire 5y ago
  Crypto is "supposed" to do 27 different, contradictory things. What it does do is provide a speculative bubble with no backing assets.
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  I don't need to complement them, and I don't sink hard earned money into hedges I don't need. You enjoy your tulips, I'll enjoy my hilltops an friends.
  - rdtwo 5y ago
    I don’t think you understand how hard it is to protect your savings when all you have access to is 3rd world banks. I’d rather have 10k in eth then say Russian roubles or whatever shit local currency
    - throwawaygh 5y ago
      The post I replied to was, in turn, replying to my post. I do not live in a 3rd world country.
      - ls15 5y ago
        People in Eastern Ukraine did not have to protect their money from Puting until very recently. Now people are taping cash to their bodies in order to evade the war zone without getting it stolen.
        throwawaygh 5y ago
        I cover that scenario in the next paragraph of my original post.
        ls15 5y ago
        Congratulations, I guess. Actually, Ukraine ranks above average and median when it comes to HDI. At least a couple of weeks ago.
  - ls15 5y ago
    > I don't need to complement them, and I don't sink hard earned money into hedges I don't need. > You enjoy your tulips, I'll enjoy my hilltops an friends. If only all people who are not interested in crypto would be like this. It does not have to be for everyone, but if it is so useless, I wonder, why it makes so many fiat enthusiasts so anxious to the point that they attack crypto enthusiasts.
SilasX 5y ago
>If you don't plan on leaving your country, useful land is a much better hedge. What? Land is about the easiest thing for a government to seize (and protect, for that matter). > portion of your portfolio held as hard assets outside the reach of your country (eg a new life startup fund held as physical currency in another country outside their banking system -- or a personal network that has the same effect) I don't see why you're ruling out crypto as not satisfying the desiderata here. There's no need for it to be physical, so long as it can be converted to a currency you want, and maintains most of the value you put in. Stablecoins would work, then, and avoid the need to keep them in a physical location in the target country. Terra has implemented stablecoins for ~20 currencies other than the US Dollar, including the IMF's special drawing rights (a basket of the five big ones): https://station.terra.money/swap https://station.terra.money/swap
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  > Land is about the easiest thing for a government to seize (and protect, for that matter). ...and just killing people even easier. What's your point? The purpose of "If you don't plan on leaving your country" is to describe situations where the threat is exogenous to governance. E.g., starvation-level crop failures/grid failure/energy shock/etc. Or even just a massive depression during which I can't find employment. In those cases, I'm less concerned about governmental overreach than figuring out where the next year of food and energy come from. The moment I'm thinking about the government taking my land unexpectedly, I'm FAR outside of "If you don't plan on leaving your country" territory. That risk is hedged in other ways. But, most importantly, I can enjoy land independent of its hedging value. I try not to invest significant chunks of time into acquiring pure hedges. How am I supposed to use stablecoin to ride a horse to a hilltop or sit around a fire with friends... > I don't see why you're ruling out crypto as not satisfying the desiderata here This is like asking why I would rule out a humanoid robot for vacuuming my floors. Because I already have an existing solution that is easier, safer, and simpler. Social connections and hard skills are an indisputably better asset to have in "fuck this I'm leaving the country" situations. And, again, having friends & family all over the place is its own reward. As is cultivating useful skills. Not sure how I'm supposed to enjoy a vacation or find meaning in life with a stablecoin. ...also, all of this is independent of the fact that crypto really isn't even a good hedge for these sorts of long-tail risks in the context of the USA.

Proudmuslim 5y ago

Crypto isn't supposed to replace the hedges you mentioned- it's supposed to complement them.

mcguire 5y ago
Crypto is "supposed" to do 27 different, contradictory things. What it does do is provide a speculative bubble with no backing assets.
throwawaygh 5y ago
I don't need to complement them, and I don't sink hard earned money into hedges I don't need. You enjoy your tulips, I'll enjoy my hilltops an friends.
- rdtwo 5y ago
  I don’t think you understand how hard it is to protect your savings when all you have access to is 3rd world banks. I’d rather have 10k in eth then say Russian roubles or whatever shit local currency
  - throwawaygh 5y ago
    The post I replied to was, in turn, replying to my post. I do not live in a 3rd world country.
    - ls15 5y ago
      People in Eastern Ukraine did not have to protect their money from Puting until very recently. Now people are taping cash to their bodies in order to evade the war zone without getting it stolen.
      - throwawaygh 5y ago
        I cover that scenario in the next paragraph of my original post.
        ls15 5y ago
        Congratulations, I guess. Actually, Ukraine ranks above average and median when it comes to HDI. At least a couple of weeks ago.
- ls15 5y ago
  > I don't need to complement them, and I don't sink hard earned money into hedges I don't need. > You enjoy your tulips, I'll enjoy my hilltops an friends. If only all people who are not interested in crypto would be like this. It does not have to be for everyone, but if it is so useless, I wonder, why it makes so many fiat enthusiasts so anxious to the point that they attack crypto enthusiasts.

SilasX 5y ago

>If you don't plan on leaving your country, useful land is a much better hedge. What? Land is about the easiest thing for a government to seize (and protect, for that matter). > portion of your portfolio held as hard assets outside the reach of your country (eg a new life startup fund held as physical currency in another country outside their banking system -- or a personal network that has the same effect) I don't see why you're ruling out crypto as not satisfying the desiderata here. There's no need for it to be physical, so long as it can be converted to a currency you want, and maintains most of the value you put in. Stablecoins would work, then, and avoid the need to keep them in a physical location in the target country. Terra has implemented stablecoins for ~20 currencies other than the US Dollar, including the IMF's special drawing rights (a basket of the five big ones): https://station.terra.money/swap https://station.terra.money/swap

throwawaygh 5y ago
> Land is about the easiest thing for a government to seize (and protect, for that matter). ...and just killing people even easier. What's your point? The purpose of "If you don't plan on leaving your country" is to describe situations where the threat is exogenous to governance. E.g., starvation-level crop failures/grid failure/energy shock/etc. Or even just a massive depression during which I can't find employment. In those cases, I'm less concerned about governmental overreach than figuring out where the next year of food and energy come from. The moment I'm thinking about the government taking my land unexpectedly, I'm FAR outside of "If you don't plan on leaving your country" territory. That risk is hedged in other ways. But, most importantly, I can enjoy land independent of its hedging value. I try not to invest significant chunks of time into acquiring pure hedges. How am I supposed to use stablecoin to ride a horse to a hilltop or sit around a fire with friends... > I don't see why you're ruling out crypto as not satisfying the desiderata here This is like asking why I would rule out a humanoid robot for vacuuming my floors. Because I already have an existing solution that is easier, safer, and simpler. Social connections and hard skills are an indisputably better asset to have in "fuck this I'm leaving the country" situations. And, again, having friends & family all over the place is its own reward. As is cultivating useful skills. Not sure how I'm supposed to enjoy a vacation or find meaning in life with a stablecoin. ...also, all of this is independent of the fact that crypto really isn't even a good hedge for these sorts of long-tail risks in the context of the USA.