4 ms·

I’m not for or against this. I am against people automatically assuming this is good or bad. For better or worse, gender is frequently used as a piece of ident

I’m not for or against this. I am against people automatically assuming this is good or bad. For better or worse, gender is frequently used as a piece of identifying information. This could cause problems. For example, many cisgendered privacy oriented folks could choice this option. The possible result would a very large chunk of the population having no gender marker on their passport. This might sound good - but it would make it very hard to study, for example, whether men or women receive preferential treatment from US Consuls. Or whether men or women face different threats abroad (some embassies keep statistics on sexual assaults). If we hypothetically assume that gender is no longer recorded, that means gender inequality becomes very difficult to study. Additionally, US Passports function as identity documents for US Citizend abroad. When I travel, I use it to pick up prescriptions. Most foreign pharmacies will accept it, but I occasionally run into trouble. I simply hope the State Department looked at these issue.

ivraatiems 5y ago
If more cisgendered/non-LGBTQ people adopt it for privacy reasons, that could helpfully shield LGBTQ people who might face persecution for having it on their passport in other countries. So maybe a feature, not a bug?
- pyuser583 5y ago
  I can’t imagine a situation where a bigoted foreign police officer is going to say “oh this person is probably just a privacy oriented civil libertarian, not some <insert horrible name for sexual minority>.” I just can’t imagine that happening. I could imagine a situation in, say, Saudi Arabia where I need to prove in male in order to, say, drive a car. And not being able to do so could get me in a world of trouble.
  - ivraatiems 5y ago
    > I can’t imagine a situation where a bigoted foreign police officer is going to say “oh this person is probably just a privacy oriented civil libertarian, not some <insert horrible name for sexual minority>.” They're not going to say that, they're going to say "oh, lots of Americans have this, who even knows what it means, the person in front of me looks [male/female] enough, whatever, go on."
version_five 5y ago
The privacy angle is lost on me. You've got a document that has your biometrics and photo in it, there is all sorts of other information requested and shared, even more for countries where you need a visa, now you need to provide various arbitrary covid related information... who are the people that go through all this but don't want to give away their sex (which for 99.9% of adults is obvious anyway)? Maybe it's possible you can find someone, but it seems like a vanishingly unimportant use case.
klipt 5y ago
> If we hypothetically assume that gender is no longer recorded Male Americans and green card holders are still required to sign up for Selective Service. Failing to sign up is grounds for denying benefits like federal financial aid and citizenship. Does putting X on your passport prevent any of this discrimination from happening? If not, it's pretty meaningless.
- buckfast 5y ago
  Agreed, we see similar in places like Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia, where women and girls are harshly discriminated against and restricted in society. They simply don't have the option to opt out of the misogyny inflicted upon them because of their sex. These assertions that permitting an 'X' sex marker on passports will somehow reduce discrimination don't really make any sense.
dismantlethesun 5y ago
> This might sound good - but it would make it very hard to study, for example, whether men or women receive preferential treatment from US Consuls. Or whether men or women face different threats abroad (some embassies keep statistics on sexual assaults). What the passport agency prints on your passport is totally different from the info they have on file and share with official agencies.
- pyuser583 5y ago
  Yes true. And beyond that, the info that’s shared with other counties is vast. Simply applying for a visa, even tourist visa, almost always requires sharing gender/sex.

ivraatiems 5y ago

If more cisgendered/non-LGBTQ people adopt it for privacy reasons, that could helpfully shield LGBTQ people who might face persecution for having it on their passport in other countries. So maybe a feature, not a bug?

pyuser583 5y ago
I can’t imagine a situation where a bigoted foreign police officer is going to say “oh this person is probably just a privacy oriented civil libertarian, not some <insert horrible name for sexual minority>.” I just can’t imagine that happening. I could imagine a situation in, say, Saudi Arabia where I need to prove in male in order to, say, drive a car. And not being able to do so could get me in a world of trouble.
- ivraatiems 5y ago
  > I can’t imagine a situation where a bigoted foreign police officer is going to say “oh this person is probably just a privacy oriented civil libertarian, not some <insert horrible name for sexual minority>.” They're not going to say that, they're going to say "oh, lots of Americans have this, who even knows what it means, the person in front of me looks [male/female] enough, whatever, go on."

version_five 5y ago

The privacy angle is lost on me. You've got a document that has your biometrics and photo in it, there is all sorts of other information requested and shared, even more for countries where you need a visa, now you need to provide various arbitrary covid related information... who are the people that go through all this but don't want to give away their sex (which for 99.9% of adults is obvious anyway)? Maybe it's possible you can find someone, but it seems like a vanishingly unimportant use case.

klipt 5y ago

> If we hypothetically assume that gender is no longer recorded Male Americans and green card holders are still required to sign up for Selective Service. Failing to sign up is grounds for denying benefits like federal financial aid and citizenship. Does putting X on your passport prevent any of this discrimination from happening? If not, it's pretty meaningless.

buckfast 5y ago
Agreed, we see similar in places like Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia, where women and girls are harshly discriminated against and restricted in society. They simply don't have the option to opt out of the misogyny inflicted upon them because of their sex. These assertions that permitting an 'X' sex marker on passports will somehow reduce discrimination don't really make any sense.

dismantlethesun 5y ago

> This might sound good - but it would make it very hard to study, for example, whether men or women receive preferential treatment from US Consuls. Or whether men or women face different threats abroad (some embassies keep statistics on sexual assaults). What the passport agency prints on your passport is totally different from the info they have on file and share with official agencies.

pyuser583 5y ago
Yes true. And beyond that, the info that’s shared with other counties is vast. Simply applying for a visa, even tourist visa, almost always requires sharing gender/sex.