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This is dystopian. Apparently they are trying to send a teenager to jail because of a single tweet: > Price previously admitted one count of sending a grossly

This is dystopian. Apparently they are trying to send a teenager to jail because of a single tweet: > Price previously admitted one count of sending a grossly offensive message by a public communication network at a hearing at Worcester magistrates court on 17 March.

breakyerself 5y ago
Its outside of what we would expect in the United States, but dystopian is hyperbolic. They don't want to tolerate racism there. Racism is bad so I can understand. The US is an outlier in how extreme our speech protections go. Even with this England tolerates far more transgressive speech than many other parts of the world. I can't even list the number of places where it's dangerous or illegal to criticize the political class. That's dystopian. This is just different from what you're used to.
- cato_the_elder 5y ago
  I'm not from the US. I am originally from one of those places where it's more dangerous to offend the political class. I guess that's part of the reason I find this dystopian.
BeefWellington 5y ago
> This is dystopian. Apparently they are trying to send a teenager to jail because of a single tweet: In most (all?) places 19 year olds are viewed as adults. Being jailed for a single tweet on its own is dystopian, there's no need to appeal to feelings about this being done to children.
- cato_the_elder 5y ago
  > In most (all?) places 19 year olds are viewed as adults. Well, you are correct one sense. But the guy is quite young, and the article itself refers to him as a teenager.
  - welcome_dragon 5y ago
    I mean a nineteen year old _is_ a teenager by definition
    - selbyk 5y ago
      And also an adult in most places, by legal definition. The two aren't mutually exclusive (to the parent comment, but responding here since my point is an extension of yours)
- bitwize 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- system2 5y ago
  I have a 19 year old nephew. He still acts like he is 10 in some cases. I can't see him as adult nor his decisions in life looks like an adult. 19 is so young and still mentally child in many cases.
bitwize 5y ago
Most of the world does not have a First Amendment. There are freer countries than the USA — countries which provide access to health care and education that goes beyond "wage slavery" training — that criminalize hate speech. One incident of expressed racial hatred is enough to warrant criminal prosecution. These countries have not yet descended into dystopia. Some of them criminalized hate speech in response to dystopia in their recent past. It's time to rethink whether an absolutist, "First Amendment-like"[0] approach to free speech is really the best approach. [0] The absolutist interpretation of the First Amendment has only actually prevailed since 1967, when a conservative Supreme Court ruled that Klan marches were protected speech in Brandenburg v. Ohio.
- version_five 5y ago
  > There are freer countries than the USA — countries which provide access to health care and education So you just made up a different definition of freedom and them claimed there are freer countries? Free education and healthcare are not related to freedom. They can be present e.g. in the USSR or in a freer country like Canada (formerly). But they are not an essential ingredient nor do they imply anything about freedom in the usual constitutional sense. You're talking about the merits of a welfare state and calling it freedom
- boeingUH60 5y ago
  > There are freer countries than the USA — countries which provide access to health care and education that goes beyond "wage slavery" training — that criminalize hate speech. Free education and healthcare are definitely good, but that isn’t what constitutes a “free” state. For example, Saudi Arabia has free education and healthcare but is an absolute monarchy that comes down hard on critics.
- inkblotuniverse 5y ago
  Even with a first amendment, free education is indoctrination. Without it, it's indoctrination you get jailed for disagreeing with.
- vmception 5y ago
  > Most of the world does not have a First Amendment. Almost most of the world lives under a constitution that guarantees freedom of speech, they just also live under a constitution that contradicts in another way and I'm not talking about an ambiguous place like the UK where they is no one specific document outlining rights, clear modern constitutions I'm thinking 3.5 billion out of 7.9 billion live in a place governed by a document that contains the same text as the First Amendment I'm sure we can get it to over half. I just added the populations of China and India to the US, as I'm only familiar with their constitutions. So just helping you strengthen your argument in the future, by maybe saying it differently.
clarge1120 5y ago
This is definitely dystopian, in the US and elsewhere. It's not just that it was a single tweet, but that the police arrested someone for a racial slur (an insult). It advances equally dystopian ideas such as "silence is violence" into real-world consequences, and establishes the dual justice system that dystopian books have warned us about for two generations.

breakyerself 5y ago

Its outside of what we would expect in the United States, but dystopian is hyperbolic. They don't want to tolerate racism there. Racism is bad so I can understand. The US is an outlier in how extreme our speech protections go. Even with this England tolerates far more transgressive speech than many other parts of the world. I can't even list the number of places where it's dangerous or illegal to criticize the political class. That's dystopian. This is just different from what you're used to.

cato_the_elder 5y ago
I'm not from the US. I am originally from one of those places where it's more dangerous to offend the political class. I guess that's part of the reason I find this dystopian.

BeefWellington 5y ago

> This is dystopian. Apparently they are trying to send a teenager to jail because of a single tweet: In most (all?) places 19 year olds are viewed as adults. Being jailed for a single tweet on its own is dystopian, there's no need to appeal to feelings about this being done to children.

cato_the_elder 5y ago
> In most (all?) places 19 year olds are viewed as adults. Well, you are correct one sense. But the guy is quite young, and the article itself refers to him as a teenager.
- welcome_dragon 5y ago
  I mean a nineteen year old _is_ a teenager by definition
  - selbyk 5y ago
    And also an adult in most places, by legal definition. The two aren't mutually exclusive (to the parent comment, but responding here since my point is an extension of yours)
bitwize 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
system2 5y ago
I have a 19 year old nephew. He still acts like he is 10 in some cases. I can't see him as adult nor his decisions in life looks like an adult. 19 is so young and still mentally child in many cases.

bitwize 5y ago

Most of the world does not have a First Amendment. There are freer countries than the USA — countries which provide access to health care and education that goes beyond "wage slavery" training — that criminalize hate speech. One incident of expressed racial hatred is enough to warrant criminal prosecution. These countries have not yet descended into dystopia. Some of them criminalized hate speech in response to dystopia in their recent past. It's time to rethink whether an absolutist, "First Amendment-like"[0] approach to free speech is really the best approach. [0] The absolutist interpretation of the First Amendment has only actually prevailed since 1967, when a conservative Supreme Court ruled that Klan marches were protected speech in Brandenburg v. Ohio.

version_five 5y ago
> There are freer countries than the USA — countries which provide access to health care and education So you just made up a different definition of freedom and them claimed there are freer countries? Free education and healthcare are not related to freedom. They can be present e.g. in the USSR or in a freer country like Canada (formerly). But they are not an essential ingredient nor do they imply anything about freedom in the usual constitutional sense. You're talking about the merits of a welfare state and calling it freedom
boeingUH60 5y ago
> There are freer countries than the USA — countries which provide access to health care and education that goes beyond "wage slavery" training — that criminalize hate speech. Free education and healthcare are definitely good, but that isn’t what constitutes a “free” state. For example, Saudi Arabia has free education and healthcare but is an absolute monarchy that comes down hard on critics.
inkblotuniverse 5y ago
Even with a first amendment, free education is indoctrination. Without it, it's indoctrination you get jailed for disagreeing with.
vmception 5y ago
> Most of the world does not have a First Amendment. Almost most of the world lives under a constitution that guarantees freedom of speech, they just also live under a constitution that contradicts in another way and I'm not talking about an ambiguous place like the UK where they is no one specific document outlining rights, clear modern constitutions I'm thinking 3.5 billion out of 7.9 billion live in a place governed by a document that contains the same text as the First Amendment I'm sure we can get it to over half. I just added the populations of China and India to the US, as I'm only familiar with their constitutions. So just helping you strengthen your argument in the future, by maybe saying it differently.

clarge1120 5y ago

This is definitely dystopian, in the US and elsewhere. It's not just that it was a single tweet, but that the police arrested someone for a racial slur (an insult). It advances equally dystopian ideas such as "silence is violence" into real-world consequences, and establishes the dual justice system that dystopian books have warned us about for two generations.