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Mining energy use and the price of bitcoin are co-integrated. They play off each other. An increase in price incentivizes more mining and more mining increases

Mining energy use and the price of bitcoin are co-integrated. They play off each other. An increase in price incentivizes more mining and more mining increases the security of the system, which incentivizes more money to flow into and stay in bitcoin. Also, as miners become a larger industrial complex and tightly coupled to electricity producers, they become a tightly integrated piece of civilization that has funds local tax revenues, is the most ideal customer for electricity producers, gives people income, and has its own lobbying groups that push for positive policy change for the system. And in the future flipped world I'm talking about, where in order to buy energy you need to have bitcoin, there is no "buying" bitcoin. Bitcoin is the primary money that you need to have to buy energy. And if you don't have it, then energy producers use their energy to mine it. At that point, it ceases to be a speculative asset and becomes the key unit of account for civilization that doesn't depend on the enforcement of the monopoly on violence.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> where in order to buy energy you need to have bitcoin, there is no "buying" bitcoin So when you say "bitcoin is energy money," that's a tautology. It's energy money if oil is priced in bitcoin. > that doesn't depend on the enforcement of the monopoly on violence Violence relieves someone of their Bitcoin keys just as easily as it does their dollars or gold. (At the very least, you can permanently sequester them.)
- anonporridge 5y ago
  > Violence relieves someone of their Bitcoin keys just as easily as it does their dollars or gold. Wrong. It is significantly more complicated to use violence to steal bitcoin from people than it is to use violence to steal dollars or gold. With bitcoin, I need to coerce you to give it to me. That could mean torture, sure, but do exist multisig key structures that make it impossible to steal bitcoin by coercing a single person. On the other hand, if I want your gold, I just shoot you in the head and spend however long it takes to rummage through you house to find where you stashed it. I don't need to coerce your mind to give it to me. This might seem like a small difference, but it's a hugely important one. It completely changes the economic calculation for the use of violence. Violence is a risky endeavor for any perpetrator and only continues if the economic rewards of engaging in violence outweigh the risks. Bitcoin increases the cost, which necessarily should decrease the incidence.
  - 8note 5y ago
    Your multisig partners need to be psychopaths who are willing to let you die to maintain your wealth. Otherwise, they are coerced when you are by violence
    - paulmd 5y ago
      you've also (gasp) given veto power over any spending you want to do, to a third party. Which is one of those things crypto was supposed to avoid. What if mom says no internet heroin this month and won't sign that transaction? Or refuses to sign any transaction at all?
    - anonporridge 5y ago
      Is the United States filled with psychopaths because we don't negotiate with terrorists? If you monetarily reward terrorism and torture, you can expect it to continue happening over and over again, because it's economically viable.
  - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
    > I just shoot you in the head and spend however long it takes to rummage through you house to find where you stashed it I'm not going to point to them. But there are numerous videos where, at the end of a coup, the deposed executive is held at gunpoint while the incoming regime demands account numbers at the America, Swiss, et cetera banks where the money is held. Swapping that to a crypto wallet just makes the extortion instantly verifiable and irrevocable. It's decreasing the cost of violent seizure.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago

> where in order to buy energy you need to have bitcoin, there is no "buying" bitcoin So when you say "bitcoin is energy money," that's a tautology. It's energy money if oil is priced in bitcoin. > that doesn't depend on the enforcement of the monopoly on violence Violence relieves someone of their Bitcoin keys just as easily as it does their dollars or gold. (At the very least, you can permanently sequester them.)

anonporridge 5y ago
> Violence relieves someone of their Bitcoin keys just as easily as it does their dollars or gold. Wrong. It is significantly more complicated to use violence to steal bitcoin from people than it is to use violence to steal dollars or gold. With bitcoin, I need to coerce you to give it to me. That could mean torture, sure, but do exist multisig key structures that make it impossible to steal bitcoin by coercing a single person. On the other hand, if I want your gold, I just shoot you in the head and spend however long it takes to rummage through you house to find where you stashed it. I don't need to coerce your mind to give it to me. This might seem like a small difference, but it's a hugely important one. It completely changes the economic calculation for the use of violence. Violence is a risky endeavor for any perpetrator and only continues if the economic rewards of engaging in violence outweigh the risks. Bitcoin increases the cost, which necessarily should decrease the incidence.
- 8note 5y ago
  Your multisig partners need to be psychopaths who are willing to let you die to maintain your wealth. Otherwise, they are coerced when you are by violence
  - paulmd 5y ago
    you've also (gasp) given veto power over any spending you want to do, to a third party. Which is one of those things crypto was supposed to avoid. What if mom says no internet heroin this month and won't sign that transaction? Or refuses to sign any transaction at all?
  - anonporridge 5y ago
    Is the United States filled with psychopaths because we don't negotiate with terrorists? If you monetarily reward terrorism and torture, you can expect it to continue happening over and over again, because it's economically viable.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > I just shoot you in the head and spend however long it takes to rummage through you house to find where you stashed it I'm not going to point to them. But there are numerous videos where, at the end of a coup, the deposed executive is held at gunpoint while the incoming regime demands account numbers at the America, Swiss, et cetera banks where the money is held. Swapping that to a crypto wallet just makes the extortion instantly verifiable and irrevocable. It's decreasing the cost of violent seizure.