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I suspect everyone just performs better on amphetamines adhd or not. This was basically what erdos argued too iirc. I’ve been curious about it since I’ve never

I suspect everyone just performs better on amphetamines adhd or not. This was basically what erdos argued too iirc. I’ve been curious about it since I’ve never tried it but many people I know have. I’d be curious how much better I would be able to focus/think with it.

BuckRogers 5y ago
Significantly. Though I'd argue you could come close or match it with sufficient willpower and conditioning your mind. It's just easy mode. I will say coming down off of it is twice as bad as the boost you gain from using it. Not worth it for that reason alone.
praptak 5y ago
The only reason I'm not taking it are reports from the users I know. The recurring theme is "soon you are unable to get up in the morning without your dose of speed".
- smabie 5y ago
  It's certainly addictive, but it's overblown imo. Like if you stop taking it after regular use you'll feel tired and have an adjustment period for a week or two, but it's not like it's gonna ruin you forever.
  - CSSer 5y ago
    You’re not generally wrong but I think it’s worth keeping in mind that this is going to depend on a combination of all sorts of factors in your personal health profile and the dosage you’ve been taking. It’s not just the addiction that is problematic. It’s the long-term consequences of the chronic side effects. We all know you need to sleep and to eat. This medication makes it harder to do both of those activities if not managed properly and thoroughly. Combine a failure to do that with long-term usage (abuse) and you've got a recipe for permanent damage on your hands that can cyclically reinforce that dependence. Here’s an anecdote. I did a group project with a guy in college who I got to talking with about it. He had one of these nightmare stories. He said he had to stop taking it because he was absolutely strung out. I asked him about his dosage and he told me he had been taking 80mg XR/day. I was unaware they even made dosages that high. He said that he didn’t realize it at the time but he just kept chasing the initial feeling (seems he didn’t understand the concept of tolerance), and his doctor responded by repeatedly titrating up his dosage. He was at that max dosage for about a year and a half. He said when he stopped he went through a months long phase of extreme depression and physical discomfort like he has never experienced in his life before. He shared some pretty brutal stuff with me. He said that it had been a year and he still didn’t feel like his old self. He said it was like his attention span was even shorter than before the medication and at this point he wasn’t sure if it would ever be the same.
    - jjfoooo4 5y ago
      It’s difficult because the minimum effective dose is quite subjective. My doctor even suggested my continuing to increase my dose without prompting, but I’ve paused at 15. The pitfalls are real but personally, being 3-4 months in, it’s been such a game changer in my temperament and quality of life.
- buscoquadnary 5y ago
  I have ADHD, when I take my Adderall I feel like I am a normal person. However if I take a break for the next 3-4 days it is like having a major depressive episode, super tired, no interest in anything, and a ravenous hunger.
  - gonehome 5y ago
    I'm really skeptical of these claims, but I hear them repeated often. Not that your description is wrong, but the assumed explanation of why. I suspect many people are in this category and people just have a bad classification for 'normal'.
    - ojkelly 5y ago
      I started meds for ADHD just under a year ago, and it was the most profound experience of my life. Until I started and experienced my brain fog lifting for the first time in my life, my mind and body physically relaxing an becoming quieter, I had no concept of how off my perception of normal was. The explanation of how stimulants affect the brain, by increasing the amount of norepinephrine and dopamine and inhibiting re-uptake, is something I feel I understand now. When I read the experiences of those with and without ADHD taking stimulants they’re pretty consistent. Those without take some, are in a ”high” get a load of stuff done, then crash hard. If they take it for too long, their normal starts to sound closer to the normal I experienced before taking medication. I kind of agree with you in the sense of having a bad classification of normal, I did. The cause and treatment are some of the most well studied areas of psychology, and stimulant treatment is one of the most effective in all of psychology. ADHD, aside from being incredibly poorly named, is looking more and more like something we will come to know as a collection of related but different conditions, that happen to all respond well to stimulant medication. I’d also add, stimulants don’t solve ADHD. They’re not a cure, they’re at best a pair of glasses, a crutch for someone with a broken leg, or a wheelchair for someone with mobility issues. They can help a lot, but they’re only one part of living with ADHD.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > ADHD, aside from being incredibly poorly named, is looking more and more like something we will come to know as a collection of related but different conditions, that happen to all respond well to stimulant medication. Not all ADHD responds well to stimulant medication, so not even that.
- sph 5y ago
  I mean, have you tried quitting coffee? I was drinking a cup a day for years, and going to zero meant being in a depressed unproductive funk for 10 days. I have an easier time not taking my amphetamine pill than I ever did skipping my morning coffee.
  - pengaru 5y ago
    > have you tried quitting coffee? I was drinking a cup a day for years, and going to zero meant being in a depressed unproductive funk for 10 days. I've found supplementing w/lions mane largely mitigates caffeine withdrawal symptoms. It also takes the edge off when taking high caffeine doses. It's kind of like a caffeine antidote. I used to abstain from it for decades because of these negatives. Now it's a quite useful, legal, and cheap stimulant I'll go on /heavily/ and off at will.
smabie 5y ago
Speed certainly helps everyone become more productive ADHD or not, but it doesn't actually make you smarter (at least in my exp). Also the side-effects of regular use were too severe for me to keep taking it. But damn the first time in college I took a 20mg and it was like a whole new world opened up for me: I felt super-human and the amount of work I was able to churn out was incredible. But like all things, it eventually catches up to you and you turn into a cracked out zombie whos muscles hurt and can't sleep.
MrMan 5y ago
this effect has been documented for a long time. I dont want the long term health effects and life destruction so I stick to coffee and take the productivity hit in the short term.
- gonehome 5y ago
  It makes me curious though - I'm doing fine now, but could it help me do something truly great? Are most people doing truly great things on adderall? It'd be interesting to know.
  - sph 5y ago
    Normal people on Adderall might go and do great things. I take it so I have the mental strength to pick the trash up off the floor.
- sph 5y ago
  Meh, after having seen how my unmedicated self turned out, depressed, anxious, isolated and chronically unsatisfied with their life, getting an ADHD diagnosis and stimulant medication means I can slightly stress my body in exchange for a meaningful life. Fuck yes. And from what I can see in the research, therapeutic doses of amphetamines do not damage the body by any meaningful level, while untreated ADHD may shorten life expectancy by 10 to 20 years. https://www.ajmc.com/view/psychologist-barkley-says-life-expectancy-slashed-in-worst-cases-for-those-with-adhd https://www.ajmc.com/view/psychologist-barkley-says-life-exp...
xeromal 5y ago
Yup, some of the best music albums ever made were done with amphetamines. It seems to enhance a lot of things.
chrsig 5y ago
From my understanding, people without adhd simply _feel_ more productive on amphetamines
- clpm4j 5y ago
  This was me for a while in my early 20s... In retrospect it was similar to that sign you'll see in some old coffee shops: "Drink coffee! Do stupid things faster and with more energy!"
BandOfBots 5y ago
Amphetamines convince people that they are performing better but do not necessarily make everyone’s performance better.

BuckRogers 5y ago

Significantly. Though I'd argue you could come close or match it with sufficient willpower and conditioning your mind. It's just easy mode. I will say coming down off of it is twice as bad as the boost you gain from using it. Not worth it for that reason alone.

praptak 5y ago

The only reason I'm not taking it are reports from the users I know. The recurring theme is "soon you are unable to get up in the morning without your dose of speed".

smabie 5y ago
It's certainly addictive, but it's overblown imo. Like if you stop taking it after regular use you'll feel tired and have an adjustment period for a week or two, but it's not like it's gonna ruin you forever.
- CSSer 5y ago
  You’re not generally wrong but I think it’s worth keeping in mind that this is going to depend on a combination of all sorts of factors in your personal health profile and the dosage you’ve been taking. It’s not just the addiction that is problematic. It’s the long-term consequences of the chronic side effects. We all know you need to sleep and to eat. This medication makes it harder to do both of those activities if not managed properly and thoroughly. Combine a failure to do that with long-term usage (abuse) and you've got a recipe for permanent damage on your hands that can cyclically reinforce that dependence. Here’s an anecdote. I did a group project with a guy in college who I got to talking with about it. He had one of these nightmare stories. He said he had to stop taking it because he was absolutely strung out. I asked him about his dosage and he told me he had been taking 80mg XR/day. I was unaware they even made dosages that high. He said that he didn’t realize it at the time but he just kept chasing the initial feeling (seems he didn’t understand the concept of tolerance), and his doctor responded by repeatedly titrating up his dosage. He was at that max dosage for about a year and a half. He said when he stopped he went through a months long phase of extreme depression and physical discomfort like he has never experienced in his life before. He shared some pretty brutal stuff with me. He said that it had been a year and he still didn’t feel like his old self. He said it was like his attention span was even shorter than before the medication and at this point he wasn’t sure if it would ever be the same.
  - jjfoooo4 5y ago
    It’s difficult because the minimum effective dose is quite subjective. My doctor even suggested my continuing to increase my dose without prompting, but I’ve paused at 15. The pitfalls are real but personally, being 3-4 months in, it’s been such a game changer in my temperament and quality of life.
buscoquadnary 5y ago
I have ADHD, when I take my Adderall I feel like I am a normal person. However if I take a break for the next 3-4 days it is like having a major depressive episode, super tired, no interest in anything, and a ravenous hunger.
- gonehome 5y ago
  I'm really skeptical of these claims, but I hear them repeated often. Not that your description is wrong, but the assumed explanation of why. I suspect many people are in this category and people just have a bad classification for 'normal'.
  - ojkelly 5y ago
    I started meds for ADHD just under a year ago, and it was the most profound experience of my life. Until I started and experienced my brain fog lifting for the first time in my life, my mind and body physically relaxing an becoming quieter, I had no concept of how off my perception of normal was. The explanation of how stimulants affect the brain, by increasing the amount of norepinephrine and dopamine and inhibiting re-uptake, is something I feel I understand now. When I read the experiences of those with and without ADHD taking stimulants they’re pretty consistent. Those without take some, are in a ”high” get a load of stuff done, then crash hard. If they take it for too long, their normal starts to sound closer to the normal I experienced before taking medication. I kind of agree with you in the sense of having a bad classification of normal, I did. The cause and treatment are some of the most well studied areas of psychology, and stimulant treatment is one of the most effective in all of psychology. ADHD, aside from being incredibly poorly named, is looking more and more like something we will come to know as a collection of related but different conditions, that happen to all respond well to stimulant medication. I’d also add, stimulants don’t solve ADHD. They’re not a cure, they’re at best a pair of glasses, a crutch for someone with a broken leg, or a wheelchair for someone with mobility issues. They can help a lot, but they’re only one part of living with ADHD.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > ADHD, aside from being incredibly poorly named, is looking more and more like something we will come to know as a collection of related but different conditions, that happen to all respond well to stimulant medication. Not all ADHD responds well to stimulant medication, so not even that.
sph 5y ago
I mean, have you tried quitting coffee? I was drinking a cup a day for years, and going to zero meant being in a depressed unproductive funk for 10 days. I have an easier time not taking my amphetamine pill than I ever did skipping my morning coffee.
- pengaru 5y ago
  > have you tried quitting coffee? I was drinking a cup a day for years, and going to zero meant being in a depressed unproductive funk for 10 days. I've found supplementing w/lions mane largely mitigates caffeine withdrawal symptoms. It also takes the edge off when taking high caffeine doses. It's kind of like a caffeine antidote. I used to abstain from it for decades because of these negatives. Now it's a quite useful, legal, and cheap stimulant I'll go on /heavily/ and off at will.

smabie 5y ago

Speed certainly helps everyone become more productive ADHD or not, but it doesn't actually make you smarter (at least in my exp). Also the side-effects of regular use were too severe for me to keep taking it. But damn the first time in college I took a 20mg and it was like a whole new world opened up for me: I felt super-human and the amount of work I was able to churn out was incredible. But like all things, it eventually catches up to you and you turn into a cracked out zombie whos muscles hurt and can't sleep.

MrMan 5y ago

this effect has been documented for a long time. I dont want the long term health effects and life destruction so I stick to coffee and take the productivity hit in the short term.

gonehome 5y ago
It makes me curious though - I'm doing fine now, but could it help me do something truly great? Are most people doing truly great things on adderall? It'd be interesting to know.
- sph 5y ago
  Normal people on Adderall might go and do great things. I take it so I have the mental strength to pick the trash up off the floor.
sph 5y ago
Meh, after having seen how my unmedicated self turned out, depressed, anxious, isolated and chronically unsatisfied with their life, getting an ADHD diagnosis and stimulant medication means I can slightly stress my body in exchange for a meaningful life. Fuck yes. And from what I can see in the research, therapeutic doses of amphetamines do not damage the body by any meaningful level, while untreated ADHD may shorten life expectancy by 10 to 20 years. https://www.ajmc.com/view/psychologist-barkley-says-life-expectancy-slashed-in-worst-cases-for-those-with-adhd https://www.ajmc.com/view/psychologist-barkley-says-life-exp...

xeromal 5y ago

Yup, some of the best music albums ever made were done with amphetamines. It seems to enhance a lot of things.

chrsig 5y ago

From my understanding, people without adhd simply _feel_ more productive on amphetamines

clpm4j 5y ago
This was me for a while in my early 20s... In retrospect it was similar to that sign you'll see in some old coffee shops: "Drink coffee! Do stupid things faster and with more energy!"

BandOfBots 5y ago

Amphetamines convince people that they are performing better but do not necessarily make everyone’s performance better.