4 ms·

I liked Microsoft better when they were assholes

32 points by johns 18y ago

mattmaroon 18y ago
I still don't understand how anyone can believe that Seinfeld only being in the first 2 was not their plan all along. It's not as if MS makes decisions one day, and then the ads are on TV the next. They plan the ads, shoot them, and buy the slots months in advance. They're not pulling them like recalled toys from Wal-Mart shelves. If they had wanted more of them, they would have filmed them and purchased the ad slots months ago, and we'd be watching them next week no matter what the critical reaction to the first two. TV studios don't just say "sure we'll refund your commercial payments because people didn't like your previous ads."
- raganwald 18y ago
  > They plan the ads, shoot them, and buy the slots months in advance. They're not pulling them like recalled toys from Wal-Mart shelves. If they had wanted more of them, they would have filmed them and purchased the ad slots months ago, and we'd be watching them next week no matter what the critical reaction to the first two. In my previous life as a marketing manager I have seen ad campaigns get pulled. They could have shot different ads as a plan B. The ads we are seeing now might have been intended to follow a longer series of Seinfeld ads but got moved up. Or they might have been intended for smaller markets and were promoted. It may be the case that Microsoft planned doing just two ads with Jerry all along, but I wouldn't say that not running a third Seinfeld ad is proof of this.
  - raganwald 18y ago
    http://valleywag.com/5051860/microsoft-ad-agency-confirms-new-seinfeld-ad-produced-yet-not-running http://valleywag.com/5051860/microsoft-ad-agency-confirms-ne... I tried submitting this, but it was marked "Dead" immediately. Nice, it looks like HN knows when enough is enough!
    - menloparkbum 18y ago
      valleywag links are automatically killed.
iigs 18y ago
I pity the marketers working the Microsoft account. There’s no way to win. If they go vague, they get people_ready. If they go edgy, they get panic and push back. Talk about a set of golden handcuffs. Pity indeed. They're in a tough spot because MS has too many irons in their brand fire. The same company that sells Halo and Zunes sells BizTalk server. They could probably fix this by breaking the corporate branding into several virtual companies; they could be sliced over 9000 different ways but at least getting the consumer entertainment and devices out into an "edgy" brand would alleviate the pain substantially. I suspect that this is kind of what they're trying to do with the prefix naming they've done so much of over the last 3-5 years. I think "Microsoft Windows Live Hotmail" is an attempt to put a marque around them without making them look like they are separate companies for antitrust purposes.
- mattmaroon 18y ago
  I don't pity anyone making that money. Also, it's great publicity for them. If it works, they're on the gravy train for decades (though CP+B was already doing just fine).
  - ssharp 18y ago
    Yeah, I'm sure CP+B is real upset with their 300MM account.
river_styx 18y ago
Okay, this article has basically no content whatsoever. It's 37signals, yeah. It's DHH, yeah. But should that really be enough to get any post to the HN frontpage?
- mattmaroon 18y ago
  That's true of most of their posts I think.
- hhm 18y ago
  However, I think the basic article premise (stated in the title), is something interesting and that nobody is saying. MS was cooler, even when it was cruel and dark. Now it's not even the dark lord, it's like a new IBM, and that's not going to attract a lot of attention.
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    Seems more the opposite to me. IBM doesn't do anything different than anyone else in their advertising. They just come out and say "IBM products are good." Also, IBM doesn't sell much to consumers, so they don't need or want to sound cool. Microsoft is doing something different. And while all different is not cool, all cool is different. It's at least half way there.
- ShardPhoenix 18y ago
  Hey, it's big news - DHH admits to being Batman!
iamdave 18y ago
Pot meet kettle. (sorry to any 37s fans)
gscott 18y ago
I believe Microsoft has the personality of Gates and when Gates just simply found out in life he didn't want to be an asshole anymore this caused Microsoft to lose direction. The same thing happened to John D. Rockefeller and Standard Oil. One day he just decided he was tired of being the asshole and said "spend it". He created a foundation to spend his money, there is a funny part in his biography where he was making money so fast his foundation could keep up spending it, causing Rockefeller consternation.
greyman 18y ago
Hubris, hubris...
maxklein 18y ago
And who is David to say this? MS is one of the biggest companies in the world, makes billions in revenue, used by all major coorporations, and 37signals are just some tiny tiny fraction of that, and stopped innovating years ago and just live off marketing and PR. So why should I pay attention to this tiny tiny company instead of the big successful one?
- monkeyx 18y ago
  I bet you said that when Microsoft came along and took on IBM.
  - maxklein 18y ago
    37signals is really not an innovative company. They are a marketing company. They have one product that is not particular ground breaking, and they have several derivatives of that product. They have not invested their income in expanding or in any way becoming more significant than their blog. Look at google. They started roughly like 37signals (well, not as much self-horn-tooting), but they kept expanding and innovating, and now they are huge. 37signals? They are about the same as when they started! If they would spend less time talking and more time coming up with new innovative products, then I would start paying attention to them. It feels to me almost as if it took them 3-4 months to add comments to their todo lists. Microsoft was fast, agile and they innovated their way to the top. They came up with new products, they copied people and made things better, they released APIs, the offered SDKs. 37signals just writes on their blog. If the loopt people told me stuff, I'd much rather listen to them than 37signals. 37signals is a slow slow company, they are not a product company, they are all about conferences, talks, books and blogging right now. And as an engineer, I'm sorry, but I don't respect such people, no matter how much money they make. I want to see products. I want them to hit me with something that makes me say 'wow'. But what do they bring out? Campfire? What the hell is that? It's already there in outlook. There is nothing innovative about painting outlook pretty. Even twitter is way more innovative than anything 37signals has ever put out.
- Herring 18y ago
  IBM is one of the biggest companies in the world, makes more than double MS' revenue and is even more irrelevant. Clearly money doesn't necessarily buy power. Microsoft — Revenue: US $44.3 Billion (2006) IBM — Revenue: $91.4 billion USD +4% FY '05 to '06)

32 points by johns 18y ago

I still don't understand how anyone can believe that Seinfeld only being in the first 2 was not their plan all along. It's not as if MS makes decisions one day, and then the ads are on TV the next. They plan the ads, shoot them, and buy the slots months in advance. They're not pulling them like recalled toys from Wal-Mart shelves. If they had wanted more of them, they would have filmed them and purchased the ad slots months ago, and we'd be watching them next week no matter what the critical reaction to the first two. TV studios don't just say "sure we'll refund your commercial payments because people didn't like your previous ads."

raganwald 18y ago
> They plan the ads, shoot them, and buy the slots months in advance. They're not pulling them like recalled toys from Wal-Mart shelves. If they had wanted more of them, they would have filmed them and purchased the ad slots months ago, and we'd be watching them next week no matter what the critical reaction to the first two. In my previous life as a marketing manager I have seen ad campaigns get pulled. They could have shot different ads as a plan B. The ads we are seeing now might have been intended to follow a longer series of Seinfeld ads but got moved up. Or they might have been intended for smaller markets and were promoted. It may be the case that Microsoft planned doing just two ads with Jerry all along, but I wouldn't say that not running a third Seinfeld ad is proof of this.
- raganwald 18y ago
  http://valleywag.com/5051860/microsoft-ad-agency-confirms-new-seinfeld-ad-produced-yet-not-running http://valleywag.com/5051860/microsoft-ad-agency-confirms-ne... I tried submitting this, but it was marked "Dead" immediately. Nice, it looks like HN knows when enough is enough!
  - menloparkbum 18y ago
    valleywag links are automatically killed.

iigs 18y ago

I pity the marketers working the Microsoft account. There’s no way to win. If they go vague, they get people_ready. If they go edgy, they get panic and push back. Talk about a set of golden handcuffs. Pity indeed. They're in a tough spot because MS has too many irons in their brand fire. The same company that sells Halo and Zunes sells BizTalk server. They could probably fix this by breaking the corporate branding into several virtual companies; they could be sliced over 9000 different ways but at least getting the consumer entertainment and devices out into an "edgy" brand would alleviate the pain substantially. I suspect that this is kind of what they're trying to do with the prefix naming they've done so much of over the last 3-5 years. I think "Microsoft Windows Live Hotmail" is an attempt to put a marque around them without making them look like they are separate companies for antitrust purposes.

mattmaroon 18y ago
I don't pity anyone making that money. Also, it's great publicity for them. If it works, they're on the gravy train for decades (though CP+B was already doing just fine).
- ssharp 18y ago
  Yeah, I'm sure CP+B is real upset with their 300MM account.

river_styx 18y ago

Okay, this article has basically no content whatsoever. It's 37signals, yeah. It's DHH, yeah. But should that really be enough to get any post to the HN frontpage?

mattmaroon 18y ago
That's true of most of their posts I think.
hhm 18y ago
However, I think the basic article premise (stated in the title), is something interesting and that nobody is saying. MS was cooler, even when it was cruel and dark. Now it's not even the dark lord, it's like a new IBM, and that's not going to attract a lot of attention.
- mattmaroon 18y ago
  Seems more the opposite to me. IBM doesn't do anything different than anyone else in their advertising. They just come out and say "IBM products are good." Also, IBM doesn't sell much to consumers, so they don't need or want to sound cool. Microsoft is doing something different. And while all different is not cool, all cool is different. It's at least half way there.
ShardPhoenix 18y ago
Hey, it's big news - DHH admits to being Batman!

iamdave 18y ago

Pot meet kettle. (sorry to any 37s fans)

gscott 18y ago

I believe Microsoft has the personality of Gates and when Gates just simply found out in life he didn't want to be an asshole anymore this caused Microsoft to lose direction. The same thing happened to John D. Rockefeller and Standard Oil. One day he just decided he was tired of being the asshole and said "spend it". He created a foundation to spend his money, there is a funny part in his biography where he was making money so fast his foundation could keep up spending it, causing Rockefeller consternation.

greyman 18y ago

Hubris, hubris...

maxklein 18y ago

And who is David to say this? MS is one of the biggest companies in the world, makes billions in revenue, used by all major coorporations, and 37signals are just some tiny tiny fraction of that, and stopped innovating years ago and just live off marketing and PR. So why should I pay attention to this tiny tiny company instead of the big successful one?

monkeyx 18y ago
I bet you said that when Microsoft came along and took on IBM.
- maxklein 18y ago
  37signals is really not an innovative company. They are a marketing company. They have one product that is not particular ground breaking, and they have several derivatives of that product. They have not invested their income in expanding or in any way becoming more significant than their blog. Look at google. They started roughly like 37signals (well, not as much self-horn-tooting), but they kept expanding and innovating, and now they are huge. 37signals? They are about the same as when they started! If they would spend less time talking and more time coming up with new innovative products, then I would start paying attention to them. It feels to me almost as if it took them 3-4 months to add comments to their todo lists. Microsoft was fast, agile and they innovated their way to the top. They came up with new products, they copied people and made things better, they released APIs, the offered SDKs. 37signals just writes on their blog. If the loopt people told me stuff, I'd much rather listen to them than 37signals. 37signals is a slow slow company, they are not a product company, they are all about conferences, talks, books and blogging right now. And as an engineer, I'm sorry, but I don't respect such people, no matter how much money they make. I want to see products. I want them to hit me with something that makes me say 'wow'. But what do they bring out? Campfire? What the hell is that? It's already there in outlook. There is nothing innovative about painting outlook pretty. Even twitter is way more innovative than anything 37signals has ever put out.
Herring 18y ago
IBM is one of the biggest companies in the world, makes more than double MS' revenue and is even more irrelevant. Clearly money doesn't necessarily buy power. Microsoft — Revenue: US $44.3 Billion (2006) IBM — Revenue: $91.4 billion USD +4% FY '05 to '06)