7 ms·

1. The marshmallow test has been debunked (just like so many other flashy claims in the social sciences field, the science is questionable and the replication c

1. The marshmallow test has been debunked (just like so many other flashy claims in the social sciences field, the science is questionable and the replication crisis is very real). So using it in a rant about how uninformed people are is itself a laughable irony. 2. Many of us simply do not agree that the use of an Apple computing device impinges on either our privacy or basic freedoms, or (more nuanced) that the marginal risk is so small that it’s not worth the moderately large inconvenience of shorter battery life.

rglullis 5y ago
1. It doesn't matter if the effects of the marshmallow test are true or not. The idea is just to illustrate how tech people are as weak-willed, short-term focused and plain "convenience-at-all-costs" as the general consumers. 2. There is no argument here: if you can not control what and how your device operates, your freedom is being taken. You can argue that you don't value this freedom over the convenience it brings you, but this is at best an admission of you being on (1).
- mlyle 5y ago
  > 1. It doesn't matter if the effects of the marshmallow test are true or not. The idea is just to illustrate how tech people are as weak-willed, short-term focused and plain "convenience-at-all-costs" as the general consumers. Can you explain to me what the long term gain I could expect, exactly, by foregoing a MacOS laptop? I have lots of computing devices; many are Linux, a couple are Windows, and I have an Apple laptop. This follows two attempts at a Linux laptop, with crummier hardware in many ways, and many inconveniences from Linux-on-the-desktop sucking. It just works, and I have lots of battery life. > 2. There is no argument here: if you can not control what and how your device operates, your freedom is being taken. Am I supposed to be a free software zealot? If my computer sucks, that also impinges on my freedom. Yes, there may be some hypothetical ability to clone lots and lots of repos and do a lot of troubleshooting and cure one source of suck-- and then argue with upstream maintainers and kowtow until eventually my fix is accepted. When the sources of suck on Linux outnumber the sources of suck on MacOS by a reasonably high multiple, I'd rather keep the MacOS device in my bag than the other machines I have that run Linux. If you're going to argue about some kind of collective loss by many people making the same choice as me-- that we all lose freedom, etc-- spare me. Tragedy of the commons, etc: not enough people are going to make the choice you're posing to have any significant effect.
  - rglullis 5y ago
    > Can you explain to me what the long term gain I could expect, exactly, by foregoing a MacOS laptop? You would not be contributing to an ecosystem controlled by a single entity who is increasingly abusing their dominance to extract more rent from consumers and other developers.
    - mlyle 5y ago
      > You would not be contributing to an ecosystem controlled by a single entity who is increasingly abusing their dominance to extract more rent from consumers and other developers. c.f. > > If you're going to argue about some kind of collective loss by many people making the same choice as me-- that we all lose freedom, etc-- spare me. Tragedy of the commons, etc: not enough people are going to make the choice you're posing to have any significant effect. So, I'd be using my market power to advocate for things that are disproportionately important to you at my own expense. That doesn't seem like "freedom". I've been a Linux user and developer forever. For awhile, I was a kernel subsystem maintainer. I've walked the walk about making free software available and useful. I also believe having a Mac laptop benefits me, and is worth the money, and that it is not morally corrosive. Can you please spare me the judgment that I'm "weak-willed" or stupid for my choice?
      - rglullis 5y ago
        > not enough people are going to make the choice you're posing to have any significant effect. A billion flies can not be wrong... I am not personally affected by what you choose to use. I could give two shits about it and go on with my day. It's you who stands to gain or lose - along with all those that make a similar choice. > That doesn't seem like "freedom". You are also free to stuff yourself with sugar, drugs, play russian roulette, sleep around with any willing consenting adult. But no, being free to do X does not mean that X is morally virtuous. And you don't get to say "spare me of your judgement" and you shouldn't be expecting any sympathy if you have to face any consequences when things blow up on your face.
        5y ago
- brimble 5y ago
  > 2. There is no argument here: if you can not control what and how your device operates, your freedom is being taken. You can argue that you don't value this freedom over the convenience it brings you, but this is at best an admission of you being on (1). To illustrate something by exaggerating (one of) the numbers to make it crystal clear what I'm getting at: A Mac that I don't fully control but has 12 hour battery life feels more free in practice than a fully-open platform with a 1-hour battery life. The latter leaves me less able to use the device for things I want to, and takes up more of my time hunting for wall outlets or just having a dead machine when I need one that's working. Time spent keeping my devices working does not feel like freedom, since I could have used that time for other things. There's hypothetical freedom to do stuff I don't really care to do (audit or fiddle with my OS), then there's the actual range of liberty-of-action for stuff that I do care to do. Personally, I tend to favor the latter, strongly. The former's just a nice-to-have.
0des 5y ago
Point 2 is laughable.

rglullis 5y ago

1. It doesn't matter if the effects of the marshmallow test are true or not. The idea is just to illustrate how tech people are as weak-willed, short-term focused and plain "convenience-at-all-costs" as the general consumers. 2. There is no argument here: if you can not control what and how your device operates, your freedom is being taken. You can argue that you don't value this freedom over the convenience it brings you, but this is at best an admission of you being on (1).

mlyle 5y ago
> 1. It doesn't matter if the effects of the marshmallow test are true or not. The idea is just to illustrate how tech people are as weak-willed, short-term focused and plain "convenience-at-all-costs" as the general consumers. Can you explain to me what the long term gain I could expect, exactly, by foregoing a MacOS laptop? I have lots of computing devices; many are Linux, a couple are Windows, and I have an Apple laptop. This follows two attempts at a Linux laptop, with crummier hardware in many ways, and many inconveniences from Linux-on-the-desktop sucking. It just works, and I have lots of battery life. > 2. There is no argument here: if you can not control what and how your device operates, your freedom is being taken. Am I supposed to be a free software zealot? If my computer sucks, that also impinges on my freedom. Yes, there may be some hypothetical ability to clone lots and lots of repos and do a lot of troubleshooting and cure one source of suck-- and then argue with upstream maintainers and kowtow until eventually my fix is accepted. When the sources of suck on Linux outnumber the sources of suck on MacOS by a reasonably high multiple, I'd rather keep the MacOS device in my bag than the other machines I have that run Linux. If you're going to argue about some kind of collective loss by many people making the same choice as me-- that we all lose freedom, etc-- spare me. Tragedy of the commons, etc: not enough people are going to make the choice you're posing to have any significant effect.
- rglullis 5y ago
  > Can you explain to me what the long term gain I could expect, exactly, by foregoing a MacOS laptop? You would not be contributing to an ecosystem controlled by a single entity who is increasingly abusing their dominance to extract more rent from consumers and other developers.
  - mlyle 5y ago
    > You would not be contributing to an ecosystem controlled by a single entity who is increasingly abusing their dominance to extract more rent from consumers and other developers. c.f. > > If you're going to argue about some kind of collective loss by many people making the same choice as me-- that we all lose freedom, etc-- spare me. Tragedy of the commons, etc: not enough people are going to make the choice you're posing to have any significant effect. So, I'd be using my market power to advocate for things that are disproportionately important to you at my own expense. That doesn't seem like "freedom". I've been a Linux user and developer forever. For awhile, I was a kernel subsystem maintainer. I've walked the walk about making free software available and useful. I also believe having a Mac laptop benefits me, and is worth the money, and that it is not morally corrosive. Can you please spare me the judgment that I'm "weak-willed" or stupid for my choice?
    - rglullis 5y ago
      > not enough people are going to make the choice you're posing to have any significant effect. A billion flies can not be wrong... I am not personally affected by what you choose to use. I could give two shits about it and go on with my day. It's you who stands to gain or lose - along with all those that make a similar choice. > That doesn't seem like "freedom". You are also free to stuff yourself with sugar, drugs, play russian roulette, sleep around with any willing consenting adult. But no, being free to do X does not mean that X is morally virtuous. And you don't get to say "spare me of your judgement" and you shouldn't be expecting any sympathy if you have to face any consequences when things blow up on your face.
      - 5y ago
brimble 5y ago
> 2. There is no argument here: if you can not control what and how your device operates, your freedom is being taken. You can argue that you don't value this freedom over the convenience it brings you, but this is at best an admission of you being on (1). To illustrate something by exaggerating (one of) the numbers to make it crystal clear what I'm getting at: A Mac that I don't fully control but has 12 hour battery life feels more free in practice than a fully-open platform with a 1-hour battery life. The latter leaves me less able to use the device for things I want to, and takes up more of my time hunting for wall outlets or just having a dead machine when I need one that's working. Time spent keeping my devices working does not feel like freedom, since I could have used that time for other things. There's hypothetical freedom to do stuff I don't really care to do (audit or fiddle with my OS), then there's the actual range of liberty-of-action for stuff that I do care to do. Personally, I tend to favor the latter, strongly. The former's just a nice-to-have.

0des 5y ago

Point 2 is laughable.