3 ms·

Corruption is using public trust for private gain. It's quite independent of centralization, and it happens in all organizations, not only government ones. The

Corruption is using public trust for private gain. It's quite independent of centralization, and it happens in all organizations, not only government ones. The countries seen as least corrupt by their citizens all have what you would call "large governments".

roenxi 5y ago
Those metrics probably tend to measure things like whether you have to pay unofficial bribes to officials as part of daily life. Picking on the US as an example of a low-corruption country, it is crystal clear that the major politicians are up to their neck in it. Bribery is all but the way politics works. And the Americans have very transparent politics compared to the EU. I expect the situation there is a lot more civilised in how much they advertise what is really going on. Nobody has come up with the philosophical tools that are needed for a public to assess how corrupt the government is and respond to it.
- vintermann 5y ago
  The metric I referred to was perceptions of corruption. The US is 67th on that list. Americans have a really low impression of their representatives' fidelity, despite stuff like petty bribes being uncommon. https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021
  - roenxi 5y ago
    Replying a bit quickly so you might want to edit it but, you say 67th and that is a misread. The US is actually 27th/28th on the list. It ranks pretty well. Particularly when the competition is somewhere like Denmark/Finland/New Zealand in slot one. I mean, sure. 6 million people is a mid-tier US state. There are probably some cracking good local councils out there too. The scale isn't impressive as far as 8 billion humans reckon it. If we want to break the world up into >1,000 countries with independent governments I'd consider that a step in the right direction for small government and cracking down on corruption.
    - vintermann 5y ago
      Right, it has a score of 67, it's not 67th. Thanks for the correction.
  - denton-scratch 5y ago
    Corruption in US politics is open and transparent; senators and congressmen can't get elected without campaign donations, and everyone knows that donations come with strings. It's hardly surprising if a senator from a hypothetical coal-mining state, who openly accepts donations from coal-mining interests, and who owns a mining company himself, blocks anti-carbon initiatives.

roenxi 5y ago

Those metrics probably tend to measure things like whether you have to pay unofficial bribes to officials as part of daily life. Picking on the US as an example of a low-corruption country, it is crystal clear that the major politicians are up to their neck in it. Bribery is all but the way politics works. And the Americans have very transparent politics compared to the EU. I expect the situation there is a lot more civilised in how much they advertise what is really going on. Nobody has come up with the philosophical tools that are needed for a public to assess how corrupt the government is and respond to it.

vintermann 5y ago
The metric I referred to was perceptions of corruption. The US is 67th on that list. Americans have a really low impression of their representatives' fidelity, despite stuff like petty bribes being uncommon. https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021 https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021
- roenxi 5y ago
  Replying a bit quickly so you might want to edit it but, you say 67th and that is a misread. The US is actually 27th/28th on the list. It ranks pretty well. Particularly when the competition is somewhere like Denmark/Finland/New Zealand in slot one. I mean, sure. 6 million people is a mid-tier US state. There are probably some cracking good local councils out there too. The scale isn't impressive as far as 8 billion humans reckon it. If we want to break the world up into >1,000 countries with independent governments I'd consider that a step in the right direction for small government and cracking down on corruption.
  - vintermann 5y ago
    Right, it has a score of 67, it's not 67th. Thanks for the correction.
- denton-scratch 5y ago
  Corruption in US politics is open and transparent; senators and congressmen can't get elected without campaign donations, and everyone knows that donations come with strings. It's hardly surprising if a senator from a hypothetical coal-mining state, who openly accepts donations from coal-mining interests, and who owns a mining company himself, blocks anti-carbon initiatives.