4 ms·

Every cloud provider does CSAM scanning or they'll be chased down by certain three letter gov agencies and/or US senators looking to score easy political points

Every cloud provider does CSAM scanning or they'll be chased down by certain three letter gov agencies and/or US senators looking to score easy political points.

sneak 5y ago
This thread is about local file scanning and has nothing to do with the cloud. Apple refers to all photos on Apple devices under the "iCloud Photos" brand name. Apple is within their rights to scan files on their servers. They already do this now, as you note. This thread is about something else: Apple OS bundled malware that scans files on non-Apple-owned machines without consent, even files that have not left the user's own device. This turns your own local hardware into a snitch against your will. What it scans for is also not within your control. They do not do this today, but they have stated at least twice that they intend to begin.
- boredtofears 5y ago
  > This thread is about local file scanning and has nothing to do with the cloud. It's completely relevant to my point because it's unlikely they'd be doing this without the pressure from US politicians. There's also a lot of speculation that it's happening device side so that E2E encryption can be enabled for uploads.
  - sneak 5y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocal... E2E encryption that leaks information to the middle device about what data is being encrypted is not E2E encrypted. It's backdoored. Any system that can't be used safely by child pornographers for safety from government surveillance cannot be used safely by other groups that the government does not wish to operate. Those groups will (without any convictions) be labeled "violent domestic terrorists" by Apple and the FBI when their in-group memes are added to the clientside scanning signature list. This is the bright line. It's your computer and data, not theirs. Companies need to comply with the law. This is not law! Backroom pressure to deny millions due process is not reasonable, democratic, or conducive to preserving human rights. It has no basis in law, it is how dictators operate. If Apple is breaking current law, charge them. If they are not, stop pressuring them, or maybe try to pass a law to alter their behavior (with associated public debate), like civilized adults do. "Beautiful company you have there, Tim Apple. Shame if something were to happen to it if you don't help us spy on your billions of users." is about as undemocratic and authoritarian as you can get. Apple trying to sugarcoat the anti-customer malware they're potentially getting strongarmed into rolling out is just as morally repugnant. When a judge issues a search warrant, the accused has legal rights that dictate what is and is not probable cause. No such due process will exist with what is or is not added to the content detection signature list, everyone on the platform is deemed worthy of suspicion and is searched. The ML algorithm will declare you guilty based on a list of hashes, the inputs for which you are not allowed to possess or see (but somehow NCMEC is). There is no additional step before guys with machine guns raid your house and steal every phone and computer in it. This is an end run around human rights to due process.
    - nonameiguess 5y ago
      Unless you encrypt on the camera, it's impossible not to leak information to the first storage device you save to. It's also impossible not to leak information to any viewer you ever use unless you just want to look at the encrypted bytes and not the photo.

Every cloud provider does CSAM scanning or they'll be chased down by certain three letter gov agencies and/or US senators looking to score easy political points.

sneak 5y ago

This thread is about local file scanning and has nothing to do with the cloud. Apple refers to all photos on Apple devices under the "iCloud Photos" brand name. Apple is within their rights to scan files on their servers. They already do this now, as you note. This thread is about something else: Apple OS bundled malware that scans files on non-Apple-owned machines without consent, even files that have not left the user's own device. This turns your own local hardware into a snitch against your will. What it scans for is also not within your control. They do not do this today, but they have stated at least twice that they intend to begin.

boredtofears 5y ago
> This thread is about local file scanning and has nothing to do with the cloud. It's completely relevant to my point because it's unlikely they'd be doing this without the pressure from US politicians. There's also a lot of speculation that it's happening device side so that E2E encryption can be enabled for uploads.
- sneak 5y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocal... E2E encryption that leaks information to the middle device about what data is being encrypted is not E2E encrypted. It's backdoored. Any system that can't be used safely by child pornographers for safety from government surveillance cannot be used safely by other groups that the government does not wish to operate. Those groups will (without any convictions) be labeled "violent domestic terrorists" by Apple and the FBI when their in-group memes are added to the clientside scanning signature list. This is the bright line. It's your computer and data, not theirs. Companies need to comply with the law. This is not law! Backroom pressure to deny millions due process is not reasonable, democratic, or conducive to preserving human rights. It has no basis in law, it is how dictators operate. If Apple is breaking current law, charge them. If they are not, stop pressuring them, or maybe try to pass a law to alter their behavior (with associated public debate), like civilized adults do. "Beautiful company you have there, Tim Apple. Shame if something were to happen to it if you don't help us spy on your billions of users." is about as undemocratic and authoritarian as you can get. Apple trying to sugarcoat the anti-customer malware they're potentially getting strongarmed into rolling out is just as morally repugnant. When a judge issues a search warrant, the accused has legal rights that dictate what is and is not probable cause. No such due process will exist with what is or is not added to the content detection signature list, everyone on the platform is deemed worthy of suspicion and is searched. The ML algorithm will declare you guilty based on a list of hashes, the inputs for which you are not allowed to possess or see (but somehow NCMEC is). There is no additional step before guys with machine guns raid your house and steal every phone and computer in it. This is an end run around human rights to due process.
  - nonameiguess 5y ago
    Unless you encrypt on the camera, it's impossible not to leak information to the first storage device you save to. It's also impossible not to leak information to any viewer you ever use unless you just want to look at the encrypted bytes and not the photo.