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> when severe cases ramp up so quickly that they overwhelm the health system. Wait a minute: A. You agree masks slow transmission. B. You agree the issue wit

> when severe cases ramp up so quickly that they overwhelm the health system. Wait a minute: A. You agree masks slow transmission. B. You agree the issue with covid is 'case spikes' overwhelming hospitals. You don't see the logic of mandating A, to prevent B? For the record, masks work far less well when only some people wear them. Obviously, masks should come off at some point, but there's no point being hasty. They make sense.

GekkePrutser 5y ago
What I agree is they made sense during the first waves. Omikron doesn't overwhelm the health system even when it's left to roam freely so there is no point doing it anymore. If a new version pops up that does cause issues again there is a point again. Not right now. And when one does pop up that does this there is sufficient warning to just put the mandate back in place again. Right now it's just not a proportionate measure. Many countries that have dropped the mask mandate are proving this. It's a really heavy-handed measure to have in place "just in case". It should be used only when there is an immediate problem. This last part is my opinion of course, and I assume you don't agree but this is the part we won't agree on.
- pasabagi 5y ago
  I guess for me, wearing a mask is like wearing a hat: I'm essentially comfortable wearing one in some contexts forever. For me, it's just not heavy handed at all. There are many other restrictions we've had through the pandemic I've found much harder: especially missing hospital visits and funerals for loved ones. Having a baby during the pandemic was not great, for example. I get that's not everybody's opinion. I would be pretty relaxed about an end to mask mandates if that was a majority opinion amongst public health experts. I'd also be relaxed about mask mandates continuing: my feeling is that people get way too emotionally involved in these things and it's best to just relax and accept that public health policy is by nature broad brush.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    I had some serious respiration issues when I was an infant and the masks give me a constant state of panic due to the association in particular with the humid air (I can't tolerate saunas too). At the time I was basically choking to death several times and needed a steam machine to keep my airways open. This association is too deep to ignore. For this reason I really hate the masks and in particular the "broad brush" nature of the regulations here. There is just absolutely no way to get an exception. I've lost a lot of trust in society over the past years. I know it's an edge case but my work, public health agencies etc, none of them really give a damn. For example at the office I've proposed to do a self-test every day I go in, that's a small deal for me. Protection is not perfect (they can give false negatives) but neither are masks. But they just don't care (even though I had to do a mandatory training praising their "commitment to mental health"). They told me straight out they don't care whether I wear a mask or not but they don't want to set a bad example. It's all politics and virtue signalling. This is what I mean by 'health theatre'.
    - pasabagi 5y ago
      Yeah, I saw that from your post history. Could you get a doctor to sign you a note giving you a medical exemption? I don't think this is really a mask issue, it's a, 'people not taking psychological suffering seriously' issue. It's a bit like why everybody is so blase about depression, even though it's the number-one killer for many age groups.
- eveningcoffee 5y ago
  I do not know on what country data your conclusion about omicron is based on but it really did overwhelm health care system in countries with low vaccination rates. You could not compare masks with contraception because if you keep having sex, yes, it will result in pregnancy but infections diseases are not like sex because they come in waves and if you can outlive the current wave, your risk drops near zero until next wave hits. Another important difference is that you could not have lesser pregnancy but you definitely can have less serious symptoms when you are exposed to lesser amount of virus particles.

GekkePrutser 5y ago

What I agree is they made sense during the first waves. Omikron doesn't overwhelm the health system even when it's left to roam freely so there is no point doing it anymore. If a new version pops up that does cause issues again there is a point again. Not right now. And when one does pop up that does this there is sufficient warning to just put the mandate back in place again. Right now it's just not a proportionate measure. Many countries that have dropped the mask mandate are proving this. It's a really heavy-handed measure to have in place "just in case". It should be used only when there is an immediate problem. This last part is my opinion of course, and I assume you don't agree but this is the part we won't agree on.

pasabagi 5y ago
I guess for me, wearing a mask is like wearing a hat: I'm essentially comfortable wearing one in some contexts forever. For me, it's just not heavy handed at all. There are many other restrictions we've had through the pandemic I've found much harder: especially missing hospital visits and funerals for loved ones. Having a baby during the pandemic was not great, for example. I get that's not everybody's opinion. I would be pretty relaxed about an end to mask mandates if that was a majority opinion amongst public health experts. I'd also be relaxed about mask mandates continuing: my feeling is that people get way too emotionally involved in these things and it's best to just relax and accept that public health policy is by nature broad brush.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  I had some serious respiration issues when I was an infant and the masks give me a constant state of panic due to the association in particular with the humid air (I can't tolerate saunas too). At the time I was basically choking to death several times and needed a steam machine to keep my airways open. This association is too deep to ignore. For this reason I really hate the masks and in particular the "broad brush" nature of the regulations here. There is just absolutely no way to get an exception. I've lost a lot of trust in society over the past years. I know it's an edge case but my work, public health agencies etc, none of them really give a damn. For example at the office I've proposed to do a self-test every day I go in, that's a small deal for me. Protection is not perfect (they can give false negatives) but neither are masks. But they just don't care (even though I had to do a mandatory training praising their "commitment to mental health"). They told me straight out they don't care whether I wear a mask or not but they don't want to set a bad example. It's all politics and virtue signalling. This is what I mean by 'health theatre'.
  - pasabagi 5y ago
    Yeah, I saw that from your post history. Could you get a doctor to sign you a note giving you a medical exemption? I don't think this is really a mask issue, it's a, 'people not taking psychological suffering seriously' issue. It's a bit like why everybody is so blase about depression, even though it's the number-one killer for many age groups.
eveningcoffee 5y ago
I do not know on what country data your conclusion about omicron is based on but it really did overwhelm health care system in countries with low vaccination rates. You could not compare masks with contraception because if you keep having sex, yes, it will result in pregnancy but infections diseases are not like sex because they come in waves and if you can outlive the current wave, your risk drops near zero until next wave hits. Another important difference is that you could not have lesser pregnancy but you definitely can have less serious symptoms when you are exposed to lesser amount of virus particles.