4 ms·

This is a pretty bad take, I want to use the word "ignorant" but that carries accusatory and negative connotations, I don't mean to call you names. At least in

This is a pretty bad take, I want to use the word "ignorant" but that carries accusatory and negative connotations, I don't mean to call you names. At least in English, the word "race" does not apply to animals, the word we use for them is "breed". Race is used exclusively for human beings. It has been largely accepted that there are very little inherent anatomical or behavioral differences between races and that race is not a reliable indicator of genetic similarity or difference. But the concept of race is primarily a sociological concept and has social implications. It is easy to disregard this aspect of it in a region of the world that until recently was largely racially homogenous. Now in many parts of Europe you have vastly different cultures living together and you're seeing the social impact of this and experiencing living in an environment like that for the first time. In the Americas it has been that way for hundreds of years. We have many culturally distinct, native ethnic groups that are easily identifiable. Using outwardly visible characteristics as an easy indicator of cultural difference is very reliable, it is not that Americans want segregation, it is that all of the groups that live on the continent have identified their communities primarily using race for a very long time, it's not easy to force them all to abandon that heuristic.

zozbot234 5y ago
> But the concept of race is primarily a sociological concept and has social implications. Perhaps, but this makes "race" just another word for "culture". And white, Black or Hispanic cultures are far from uniform in the U.S. so even by that standard it makes little sense. "Using outwardly visible characteristics as an easy indicator of cultural difference" merely invites stereotyping anyone who holds such visible characteristics, as if differences within the so-called races weren't far more relevant overall.
prmoustache 5y ago
> At least in English, the word "race" does not apply to animals, the word we use for them is "breed". Race is used exclusively for human beings. And in french "race" is direct traduction to "breed". The thing is mixing skin colors, physical features, cultures and possibly religious choices/origins to form a blob named race do not work at all. For example my girlfriend is mexican, her skin is maybe a little more brownish than the average mexican, thus she has been suffering from racism in her own country, hearing her mother saying she wished she had been more white, suffering discrimination during her studies, getting systematically refused entry in places such as dance clubs and generally being dismissed by "white mexicans". Now she lives in europe and whenever she meet another mexican, it doesn't really matter if he/she is whiter or browner than her. Being all away from their roots are all happy to see and share their common culture, talk about what they are missing (mostly about food ha ha) and they feel much more united than inside their own country. What about people with parents with white and brown skin colors. I often have a laugh when people mention someone looking no more brownish than the average south spanish being called black because he has a black father or mother. There are so many body characteristics, so many gradients. At which point of brownishness are you sliding from being white to black? So in a way they are part of a same whole but they can be destinguished at times. And some people having exact same skin color do not necessarily face the same kind of racism depending on where they live and what is the current culture. Racism suffured by black people in the US of A do not have the same characteristics as the racism suffured by black people in other parts of the world. Racism suffured by asian people has different charistics but then again is not the same depending on the country they live. A lot of people from Portugal, Romania, balkanic country suffer from a lot of discrimination and mockery here in europe even when they can't be mistaken physically, just because people figure out their origin another way. Racism is about creating groups based on arbitrary, unscientific, often fluid and tenous differences. Using the concept of race within a country, even with the idea to fight its effects such as running statistics, positive discrimination can only promote more racism.
commandlinefan 5y ago
> I want to use the word "ignorant" His dig at the end that "America doesn't want to end segregation" suggests that he's more than just ignorant here. Race hasn't been used in a segregatory way in America in 70 years. Now it's used as a wedge to push unpopular socialist policies.
- prmoustache 5y ago
  Don't tell me a large part of the population, especially in the southern states, would not still agree with segregation if they were allowed to. And yes segregation still exist in modern american society: https://www.epi.org/publication/modern-segregation/ https://www.epi.org/publication/modern-segregation/ https://ideas.darden.virginia.edu/segregation-in-2020 https://ideas.darden.virginia.edu/segregation-in-2020 https://www.salon.com/2021/06/26/modern-day-segregation-in-hospitals-is-killing-black-patients/ https://www.salon.com/2021/06/26/modern-day-segregation-in-h... https://www.diversityinc.com/what-does-segregation-look-like-today/ https://www.diversityinc.com/what-does-segregation-look-like... https://www.studyfinds.org/white-flight-segregation/ https://www.studyfinds.org/white-flight-segregation/
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    Define "a large part." Are we talking linear numbers? The US has a population of 350 million people, 3.5 million is still only 1%. Would you say that the percentage of French ethno nationalists is above 1% of the population? What about percentages? I challenge you to find anything showing a double digit percentage of Americans that would like segregation. You have a very uninformed and derogatory view of a certain segment of the US population, and your view of southerners in particular is very stereotypical and not rooted in fact.
    - prmoustache 5y ago
      >Would you say that the percentage of French ethno nationalists is above 1% of the population? Sadly I would say yes.

zozbot234 5y ago

> But the concept of race is primarily a sociological concept and has social implications. Perhaps, but this makes "race" just another word for "culture". And white, Black or Hispanic cultures are far from uniform in the U.S. so even by that standard it makes little sense. "Using outwardly visible characteristics as an easy indicator of cultural difference" merely invites stereotyping anyone who holds such visible characteristics, as if differences within the so-called races weren't far more relevant overall.

prmoustache 5y ago

> At least in English, the word "race" does not apply to animals, the word we use for them is "breed". Race is used exclusively for human beings. And in french "race" is direct traduction to "breed". The thing is mixing skin colors, physical features, cultures and possibly religious choices/origins to form a blob named race do not work at all. For example my girlfriend is mexican, her skin is maybe a little more brownish than the average mexican, thus she has been suffering from racism in her own country, hearing her mother saying she wished she had been more white, suffering discrimination during her studies, getting systematically refused entry in places such as dance clubs and generally being dismissed by "white mexicans". Now she lives in europe and whenever she meet another mexican, it doesn't really matter if he/she is whiter or browner than her. Being all away from their roots are all happy to see and share their common culture, talk about what they are missing (mostly about food ha ha) and they feel much more united than inside their own country. What about people with parents with white and brown skin colors. I often have a laugh when people mention someone looking no more brownish than the average south spanish being called black because he has a black father or mother. There are so many body characteristics, so many gradients. At which point of brownishness are you sliding from being white to black? So in a way they are part of a same whole but they can be destinguished at times. And some people having exact same skin color do not necessarily face the same kind of racism depending on where they live and what is the current culture. Racism suffured by black people in the US of A do not have the same characteristics as the racism suffured by black people in other parts of the world. Racism suffured by asian people has different charistics but then again is not the same depending on the country they live. A lot of people from Portugal, Romania, balkanic country suffer from a lot of discrimination and mockery here in europe even when they can't be mistaken physically, just because people figure out their origin another way. Racism is about creating groups based on arbitrary, unscientific, often fluid and tenous differences. Using the concept of race within a country, even with the idea to fight its effects such as running statistics, positive discrimination can only promote more racism.

commandlinefan 5y ago

> I want to use the word "ignorant" His dig at the end that "America doesn't want to end segregation" suggests that he's more than just ignorant here. Race hasn't been used in a segregatory way in America in 70 years. Now it's used as a wedge to push unpopular socialist policies.

prmoustache 5y ago
Don't tell me a large part of the population, especially in the southern states, would not still agree with segregation if they were allowed to. And yes segregation still exist in modern american society: https://www.epi.org/publication/modern-segregation/ https://www.epi.org/publication/modern-segregation/ https://ideas.darden.virginia.edu/segregation-in-2020 https://ideas.darden.virginia.edu/segregation-in-2020 https://www.salon.com/2021/06/26/modern-day-segregation-in-hospitals-is-killing-black-patients/ https://www.salon.com/2021/06/26/modern-day-segregation-in-h... https://www.diversityinc.com/what-does-segregation-look-like-today/ https://www.diversityinc.com/what-does-segregation-look-like... https://www.studyfinds.org/white-flight-segregation/ https://www.studyfinds.org/white-flight-segregation/
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  Define "a large part." Are we talking linear numbers? The US has a population of 350 million people, 3.5 million is still only 1%. Would you say that the percentage of French ethno nationalists is above 1% of the population? What about percentages? I challenge you to find anything showing a double digit percentage of Americans that would like segregation. You have a very uninformed and derogatory view of a certain segment of the US population, and your view of southerners in particular is very stereotypical and not rooted in fact.
  - prmoustache 5y ago
    >Would you say that the percentage of French ethno nationalists is above 1% of the population? Sadly I would say yes.