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> those people who make close contact with reality have figured out that masking doesn't make any practical difference Wait, what? What's your epistemology her

> those people who make close contact with reality have figured out that masking doesn't make any practical difference Wait, what? What's your epistemology here? I thought medical studies overwhelmingly show that masking does make a difference. Are you suggesting that we should just ignore the studies and listen to people 'who make close contact with reality'? What does that even mean?

throwaway22032 5y ago
The withdrawal method for contraception comes to mind. Does it work better than nothing for some time-limited period? Sure. But does it work? No, if pregnancy is not an acceptable outcome then you can't rely on it. You can't take the probability of contracting an infection on one exposure and then extrapolate it out. Over a long enough period p reaches 1.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Indeed. The only case where it makes sense is when severe cases ramp up so quickly that they overwhelm the health system. Right now we're in a stable situation even without masks and most countries here in Europe have abandoned them even in public transport and doing just fine. Sadly where I live (Spain) is not one of them :( But for personal protection there's no point. COVID has become so contagious we're all going to get it sooner rather than later anyway. Might as well get it over with. Or at least make it a personal choice. Those who are worried about it can wear the heavy masks but leave the rest of us alone :)
  - pasabagi 5y ago
    > when severe cases ramp up so quickly that they overwhelm the health system. Wait a minute: A. You agree masks slow transmission. B. You agree the issue with covid is 'case spikes' overwhelming hospitals. You don't see the logic of mandating A, to prevent B? For the record, masks work far less well when only some people wear them. Obviously, masks should come off at some point, but there's no point being hasty. They make sense.
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      What I agree is they made sense during the first waves. Omikron doesn't overwhelm the health system even when it's left to roam freely so there is no point doing it anymore. If a new version pops up that does cause issues again there is a point again. Not right now. And when one does pop up that does this there is sufficient warning to just put the mandate back in place again. Right now it's just not a proportionate measure. Many countries that have dropped the mask mandate are proving this. It's a really heavy-handed measure to have in place "just in case". It should be used only when there is an immediate problem. This last part is my opinion of course, and I assume you don't agree but this is the part we won't agree on.
      - pasabagi 5y ago
        I guess for me, wearing a mask is like wearing a hat: I'm essentially comfortable wearing one in some contexts forever. For me, it's just not heavy handed at all. There are many other restrictions we've had through the pandemic I've found much harder: especially missing hospital visits and funerals for loved ones. Having a baby during the pandemic was not great, for example. I get that's not everybody's opinion. I would be pretty relaxed about an end to mask mandates if that was a majority opinion amongst public health experts. I'd also be relaxed about mask mandates continuing: my feeling is that people get way too emotionally involved in these things and it's best to just relax and accept that public health policy is by nature broad brush.
        GekkePrutser 5y ago
        I had some serious respiration issues when I was an infant and the masks give me a constant state of panic due to the association in particular with the humid air (I can't tolerate saunas too). At the time I was basically choking to death several times and needed a steam machine to keep my airways open. This association is too deep to ignore. For this reason I really hate the masks and in particular the "broad brush" nature of the regulations here. There is just absolutely no way to get an exception. I've lost a lot of trust in society over the past years. I know it's an edge case but my work, public health agencies etc, none of them really give a damn. For example at the office I've proposed to do a self-test every day I go in, that's a small deal for me. Protection is not perfect (they can give false negatives) but neither are masks. But they just don't care (even though I had to do a mandatory training praising their "commitment to mental health"). They told me straight out they don't care whether I wear a mask or not but they don't want to set a bad example. It's all politics and virtue signalling. This is what I mean by 'health theatre'.
statop 5y ago
Don’t waste your time… the Wookiee posted that ivermectin is an effective treatment for Covid just 12 days ago!
WaxedChewbacca 5y ago

throwaway22032 5y ago

The withdrawal method for contraception comes to mind. Does it work better than nothing for some time-limited period? Sure. But does it work? No, if pregnancy is not an acceptable outcome then you can't rely on it. You can't take the probability of contracting an infection on one exposure and then extrapolate it out. Over a long enough period p reaches 1.

GekkePrutser 5y ago
Indeed. The only case where it makes sense is when severe cases ramp up so quickly that they overwhelm the health system. Right now we're in a stable situation even without masks and most countries here in Europe have abandoned them even in public transport and doing just fine. Sadly where I live (Spain) is not one of them :( But for personal protection there's no point. COVID has become so contagious we're all going to get it sooner rather than later anyway. Might as well get it over with. Or at least make it a personal choice. Those who are worried about it can wear the heavy masks but leave the rest of us alone :)
- pasabagi 5y ago
  > when severe cases ramp up so quickly that they overwhelm the health system. Wait a minute: A. You agree masks slow transmission. B. You agree the issue with covid is 'case spikes' overwhelming hospitals. You don't see the logic of mandating A, to prevent B? For the record, masks work far less well when only some people wear them. Obviously, masks should come off at some point, but there's no point being hasty. They make sense.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    What I agree is they made sense during the first waves. Omikron doesn't overwhelm the health system even when it's left to roam freely so there is no point doing it anymore. If a new version pops up that does cause issues again there is a point again. Not right now. And when one does pop up that does this there is sufficient warning to just put the mandate back in place again. Right now it's just not a proportionate measure. Many countries that have dropped the mask mandate are proving this. It's a really heavy-handed measure to have in place "just in case". It should be used only when there is an immediate problem. This last part is my opinion of course, and I assume you don't agree but this is the part we won't agree on.
    - pasabagi 5y ago
      I guess for me, wearing a mask is like wearing a hat: I'm essentially comfortable wearing one in some contexts forever. For me, it's just not heavy handed at all. There are many other restrictions we've had through the pandemic I've found much harder: especially missing hospital visits and funerals for loved ones. Having a baby during the pandemic was not great, for example. I get that's not everybody's opinion. I would be pretty relaxed about an end to mask mandates if that was a majority opinion amongst public health experts. I'd also be relaxed about mask mandates continuing: my feeling is that people get way too emotionally involved in these things and it's best to just relax and accept that public health policy is by nature broad brush.
      - GekkePrutser 5y ago
        I had some serious respiration issues when I was an infant and the masks give me a constant state of panic due to the association in particular with the humid air (I can't tolerate saunas too). At the time I was basically choking to death several times and needed a steam machine to keep my airways open. This association is too deep to ignore. For this reason I really hate the masks and in particular the "broad brush" nature of the regulations here. There is just absolutely no way to get an exception. I've lost a lot of trust in society over the past years. I know it's an edge case but my work, public health agencies etc, none of them really give a damn. For example at the office I've proposed to do a self-test every day I go in, that's a small deal for me. Protection is not perfect (they can give false negatives) but neither are masks. But they just don't care (even though I had to do a mandatory training praising their "commitment to mental health"). They told me straight out they don't care whether I wear a mask or not but they don't want to set a bad example. It's all politics and virtue signalling. This is what I mean by 'health theatre'.

statop 5y ago

Don’t waste your time… the Wookiee posted that ivermectin is an effective treatment for Covid just 12 days ago!

WaxedChewbacca 5y ago