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I trust that Apple isn't doing anything nefarious here, but at the same time, I'm quite grateful that others aren't so trusting. I want the "white hat" suspicio

I trust that Apple isn't doing anything nefarious here, but at the same time, I'm quite grateful that others aren't so trusting. I want the "white hat" suspicious and skeptical rooting through everything. In fact, I don't think I'd trust Apple so much if it weren't for those that don't trust them. Their constructive distrust enables my trust.

smcn 5y ago
What's the phrase? "Trust but verify"?
- fer 5y ago
  Yes, the Russian proverb. It's even better in Russian: доверяй, но проверяй, doveryay no proveryay It's better because it displays both words are semantically related. In fact, "verify" is cognate with their root, vera/veryat', probably a common Indoeuropean root but I'm too lazy to verify (pun intended).
  - bmn__ 5y ago
    You spoke true. https://www.etymonline.com/word/%2awere-o- https://www.etymonline.com/word/%2awere-o-
  - pstoll 5y ago
    Interesting - so more like “verity but verify”. Very cool.
    - fer 5y ago
      "rest/be assured but ensure" is how I would keep the semantics wordplay, but obviously there's always something lost in translation.
sneak 5y ago
Why do you trust that? Apple has specifically admitted to having a nefarious plan to scan your local files without consent and further use your computer (also without consent) to report on you to law enforcement. This may well be that implementation. The latest desktop and mobile OSes are quietly shipping code to enable this, despite the uproar that happened when Apple announced it. They let people believe they were stopping the project, but it nonetheless proceeds quietly. Apple is not trustworthy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS_Monterey https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS_Monterey (Edit for clarity: enable above is used in the "to support" sense. I do not know if such clientside scanning is enabled (in the activated sense) yet, only that Apple has explicitly stated at least twice that it will be. It appears imminent. Some or all of the code has already shipped and is on your machine(s).)
- boredtofears 5y ago
  Every cloud provider does CSAM scanning or they'll be chased down by certain three letter gov agencies and/or US senators looking to score easy political points.
  - sneak 5y ago
    This thread is about local file scanning and has nothing to do with the cloud. Apple refers to all photos on Apple devices under the "iCloud Photos" brand name. Apple is within their rights to scan files on their servers. They already do this now, as you note. This thread is about something else: Apple OS bundled malware that scans files on non-Apple-owned machines without consent, even files that have not left the user's own device. This turns your own local hardware into a snitch against your will. What it scans for is also not within your control. They do not do this today, but they have stated at least twice that they intend to begin.
    - boredtofears 5y ago
      > This thread is about local file scanning and has nothing to do with the cloud. It's completely relevant to my point because it's unlikely they'd be doing this without the pressure from US politicians. There's also a lot of speculation that it's happening device side so that E2E encryption can be enabled for uploads.

smcn 5y ago

What's the phrase? "Trust but verify"?

fer 5y ago
Yes, the Russian proverb. It's even better in Russian: доверяй, но проверяй, doveryay no proveryay It's better because it displays both words are semantically related. In fact, "verify" is cognate with their root, vera/veryat', probably a common Indoeuropean root but I'm too lazy to verify (pun intended).
- bmn__ 5y ago
  You spoke true. https://www.etymonline.com/word/%2awere-o- https://www.etymonline.com/word/%2awere-o-
- pstoll 5y ago
  Interesting - so more like “verity but verify”. Very cool.
  - fer 5y ago
    "rest/be assured but ensure" is how I would keep the semantics wordplay, but obviously there's always something lost in translation.

sneak 5y ago

Why do you trust that? Apple has specifically admitted to having a nefarious plan to scan your local files without consent and further use your computer (also without consent) to report on you to law enforcement. This may well be that implementation. The latest desktop and mobile OSes are quietly shipping code to enable this, despite the uproar that happened when Apple announced it. They let people believe they were stopping the project, but it nonetheless proceeds quietly. Apple is not trustworthy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS_Monterey https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS_Monterey (Edit for clarity: enable above is used in the "to support" sense. I do not know if such clientside scanning is enabled (in the activated sense) yet, only that Apple has explicitly stated at least twice that it will be. It appears imminent. Some or all of the code has already shipped and is on your machine(s).)

boredtofears 5y ago
Every cloud provider does CSAM scanning or they'll be chased down by certain three letter gov agencies and/or US senators looking to score easy political points.
- sneak 5y ago
  This thread is about local file scanning and has nothing to do with the cloud. Apple refers to all photos on Apple devices under the "iCloud Photos" brand name. Apple is within their rights to scan files on their servers. They already do this now, as you note. This thread is about something else: Apple OS bundled malware that scans files on non-Apple-owned machines without consent, even files that have not left the user's own device. This turns your own local hardware into a snitch against your will. What it scans for is also not within your control. They do not do this today, but they have stated at least twice that they intend to begin.
  - boredtofears 5y ago
    > This thread is about local file scanning and has nothing to do with the cloud. It's completely relevant to my point because it's unlikely they'd be doing this without the pressure from US politicians. There's also a lot of speculation that it's happening device side so that E2E encryption can be enabled for uploads.