7 ms·

Among the Half-Masked: Covid theater is a sign of a healthy society

WaxedChewbacca 5y ago
No, I can't agree. This stuff is not symbolic. The conflict is over nothing less than paramount human issues like bodily autonomy. This virus is simply not very dangerous to the vast majority of people, and those people who make close contact with reality have figured out that masking doesn't make any practical difference, so they do the minimum required not to be scolded. Those people that the left typically looks down upon for lacking a fancy education, those are the people who actually make this world work. They are out in reality; the NPR listeners are in the bubble. Being forced to do silly things is not a trivial issue. If superstition and unfalsifiable claims of harm reign, there is no limit to how bad things can get.
- h2odragon 5y ago
  At least we don't have to cut off the tips of our tonkers to participate in society. Yet.
- thematrixturtle 5y ago
  Bad mask wearing and dousing yourself in sanitizer before going outside might be silly theater that doesn’t necessarily stop the spread of COVID or death, but they do tell us something deeper about a society. Like how much they care about each other, how much they are invested in taking one for the team, and how much they are trying to put the greater good over their own self expression. Even if it doesn’t fully work out. In the US, and Western Europe, we went a different route. We didn’t come together. We followed the individualistic path, not the collectivism path, and those who could, removed themselves from society, cocooned in a bubble of protection, where they didn’t need a mask. Via zoom, second homes, and workers to deliver them stuff. Others, mostly the working class and poor, didn’t have the ability to do that. They continued making sure society didn’t fall apart, so that the cocooned could run their laptops, eat good food, and live safety. All while wearing a mask, and all while having to follow many other rules.
  - WaxedChewbacca 5y ago
- pasabagi 5y ago
  > those people who make close contact with reality have figured out that masking doesn't make any practical difference Wait, what? What's your epistemology here? I thought medical studies overwhelmingly show that masking does make a difference. Are you suggesting that we should just ignore the studies and listen to people 'who make close contact with reality'? What does that even mean?
  - throwaway22032 5y ago
    The withdrawal method for contraception comes to mind. Does it work better than nothing for some time-limited period? Sure. But does it work? No, if pregnancy is not an acceptable outcome then you can't rely on it. You can't take the probability of contracting an infection on one exposure and then extrapolate it out. Over a long enough period p reaches 1.
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      Indeed. The only case where it makes sense is when severe cases ramp up so quickly that they overwhelm the health system. Right now we're in a stable situation even without masks and most countries here in Europe have abandoned them even in public transport and doing just fine. Sadly where I live (Spain) is not one of them :( But for personal protection there's no point. COVID has become so contagious we're all going to get it sooner rather than later anyway. Might as well get it over with. Or at least make it a personal choice. Those who are worried about it can wear the heavy masks but leave the rest of us alone :)
      - pasabagi 5y ago
        > when severe cases ramp up so quickly that they overwhelm the health system. Wait a minute: A. You agree masks slow transmission. B. You agree the issue with covid is 'case spikes' overwhelming hospitals. You don't see the logic of mandating A, to prevent B? For the record, masks work far less well when only some people wear them. Obviously, masks should come off at some point, but there's no point being hasty. They make sense.
GekkePrutser 5y ago
For me it's done the opposite. It's re-enforced my individuality. I have an old medical issue that makes masks very troublesome to the point of panic. I've spent the last two years trying to explain this and been nothing but stonewalled at work, in the medical community etc. Nobody wants to find a solution, their medical theatre is more important to them. Even simpler solutions like allowing me to work remotely or letting me book an office when I'm there are rejected because they don't want to undermine the message. In the end it showed me how easy it is to become marginalised and how all those people that say they care about inclusion don't really give a fuck about fixing edge cases as long as they are seen to be virtuous. I was pretty socialist myself but now I've become totally individualist. When given the choice between what's best for me or for society I will always choose myself from now on. I've learned from my mistakes. F society. I have a friend in a wheelchair who told me about this in the past but I never saw it. Companies promoting inclusion and installing fancy wheelchair ramps, yet not totally ignoring things like the accessway into the building that's full of steps. It's mostly virtue signalling. Being confronted with this myself really opened my eyes.
guilhas 5y ago
Poor young people walking on the street alone wearing a mask. Wealthy people and politicians going to the Super Bowl not wearing a mask. Does not look very healthy

No, I can't agree. This stuff is not symbolic. The conflict is over nothing less than paramount human issues like bodily autonomy. This virus is simply not very dangerous to the vast majority of people, and those people who make close contact with reality have figured out that masking doesn't make any practical difference, so they do the minimum required not to be scolded. Those people that the left typically looks down upon for lacking a fancy education, those are the people who actually make this world work. They are out in reality; the NPR listeners are in the bubble. Being forced to do silly things is not a trivial issue. If superstition and unfalsifiable claims of harm reign, there is no limit to how bad things can get.

h2odragon 5y ago
At least we don't have to cut off the tips of our tonkers to participate in society. Yet.
thematrixturtle 5y ago
Bad mask wearing and dousing yourself in sanitizer before going outside might be silly theater that doesn’t necessarily stop the spread of COVID or death, but they do tell us something deeper about a society. Like how much they care about each other, how much they are invested in taking one for the team, and how much they are trying to put the greater good over their own self expression. Even if it doesn’t fully work out. In the US, and Western Europe, we went a different route. We didn’t come together. We followed the individualistic path, not the collectivism path, and those who could, removed themselves from society, cocooned in a bubble of protection, where they didn’t need a mask. Via zoom, second homes, and workers to deliver them stuff. Others, mostly the working class and poor, didn’t have the ability to do that. They continued making sure society didn’t fall apart, so that the cocooned could run their laptops, eat good food, and live safety. All while wearing a mask, and all while having to follow many other rules.
- WaxedChewbacca 5y ago
pasabagi 5y ago
> those people who make close contact with reality have figured out that masking doesn't make any practical difference Wait, what? What's your epistemology here? I thought medical studies overwhelmingly show that masking does make a difference. Are you suggesting that we should just ignore the studies and listen to people 'who make close contact with reality'? What does that even mean?
- throwaway22032 5y ago
  The withdrawal method for contraception comes to mind. Does it work better than nothing for some time-limited period? Sure. But does it work? No, if pregnancy is not an acceptable outcome then you can't rely on it. You can't take the probability of contracting an infection on one exposure and then extrapolate it out. Over a long enough period p reaches 1.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Indeed. The only case where it makes sense is when severe cases ramp up so quickly that they overwhelm the health system. Right now we're in a stable situation even without masks and most countries here in Europe have abandoned them even in public transport and doing just fine. Sadly where I live (Spain) is not one of them :( But for personal protection there's no point. COVID has become so contagious we're all going to get it sooner rather than later anyway. Might as well get it over with. Or at least make it a personal choice. Those who are worried about it can wear the heavy masks but leave the rest of us alone :)
    - pasabagi 5y ago
      > when severe cases ramp up so quickly that they overwhelm the health system. Wait a minute: A. You agree masks slow transmission. B. You agree the issue with covid is 'case spikes' overwhelming hospitals. You don't see the logic of mandating A, to prevent B? For the record, masks work far less well when only some people wear them. Obviously, masks should come off at some point, but there's no point being hasty. They make sense.

GekkePrutser 5y ago

For me it's done the opposite. It's re-enforced my individuality. I have an old medical issue that makes masks very troublesome to the point of panic. I've spent the last two years trying to explain this and been nothing but stonewalled at work, in the medical community etc. Nobody wants to find a solution, their medical theatre is more important to them. Even simpler solutions like allowing me to work remotely or letting me book an office when I'm there are rejected because they don't want to undermine the message. In the end it showed me how easy it is to become marginalised and how all those people that say they care about inclusion don't really give a fuck about fixing edge cases as long as they are seen to be virtuous. I was pretty socialist myself but now I've become totally individualist. When given the choice between what's best for me or for society I will always choose myself from now on. I've learned from my mistakes. F society. I have a friend in a wheelchair who told me about this in the past but I never saw it. Companies promoting inclusion and installing fancy wheelchair ramps, yet not totally ignoring things like the accessway into the building that's full of steps. It's mostly virtue signalling. Being confronted with this myself really opened my eyes.

guilhas 5y ago

Poor young people walking on the street alone wearing a mask. Wealthy people and politicians going to the Super Bowl not wearing a mask. Does not look very healthy