5 ms·

The whole concept of race is fast becoming outmoded as more and more "mixed persons" are being born. I myself am a multigenerational mix (both parents are mixes

The whole concept of race is fast becoming outmoded as more and more "mixed persons" are being born. I myself am a multigenerational mix (both parents are mixes) of 4 races -- 3 from my mother, and 2 from my father, with one overlap. I identify with 2 of these races, but acknowledge all 4; mainly due to cultural influence. As a child (wore my hair quite long then), I've had someone pull me aside and ask, "so umm...what are you?" Wasn't offensive, but rather humorous. For a time, I grew up confused. Looking back, I know it wasn't my fault, but due to the boxes society so wants to put is all into, so they can be comfortable. I've even had this conversation with my (I believe) majority race. If someone is 50%, we agree they are a member. But what about 40%, or 20%, or even 5%? At what point do we cut it off -- or rather should we cut it off? What if that 5% person was completely raised in said culture? When you begin to ask these kinds of questions, you begin to see the absurdity of classification. After all, the US used to have a one-drop rule...(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule) I'm not preaching some trans-racial ideology, but I do think we need to rethink the whole idea of race -- particularly in the US.

spupe 5y ago
There is no consistent definition of race in humans. Certainly no scientifically valid one. We are all playing word games, politically motivated ones as demonstrated by this article. That's not to say racism doesn't exist of course.
prmoustache 5y ago
European here. Back after WWII most european people, supported by the scientific community, agreed that the concept of race was not something applicable to human species. It is only used nowadays to talk about the breeding of particular groups of dogs, cats, cows and goats mostly. For us it all look weird and plain racist to hear race still being used in the US, including in official/administrative papers and law enforcement. We attribute that to a huge part of the US being reluctant to abandon segregation.
- youeseh 5y ago
  I understand that many Europeans think that racism no longer exists in Europe - and I've never been there to see for myself - we do get the occasional story of black athletes getting bananas thrown at them in Italy, something that is weird and just plain racist. A person caught doing that in America would be permanently banned from the venue.
  - prmoustache 5y ago
    I don't think anyone say racism disappeared. I only said there has been a general consensus that human races do not exist. That do not means people suddently like people of a different color, accept other cultures or want to see them express their due freedom of religion. And I think most of the racism was kind of hidden as something people would keep for themselves or in close circles. Trump has recently acted as some kind of enabler and we see a resurgence of far-right people in many european countries not being afraid of plainly expressing their hatred and politician and writers not being afraid of getting fined. I would say the future is kind of cloudy in many european countries right now and probably all over the world in that regard. We are kind of back in the 1930's, just with better tech.
  - p_l 5y ago
    It's not that racism disappeared, it's more that from European point of view, skin colour is like "Baby's first racism". We have long history on hating on much more detailed differences that appear to have disappeared from public perception in USA due to its special relationship with slavery and effective apartheid. So ultimately hating by skin colour is both more recognised and bad, and has less targets, so we keep our "good old" prejudices that go into sometimes minor things and occasionally get hilarious when people interact all nice because they aren't aware of the other person being from hated group
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  This is a pretty bad take, I want to use the word "ignorant" but that carries accusatory and negative connotations, I don't mean to call you names. At least in English, the word "race" does not apply to animals, the word we use for them is "breed". Race is used exclusively for human beings. It has been largely accepted that there are very little inherent anatomical or behavioral differences between races and that race is not a reliable indicator of genetic similarity or difference. But the concept of race is primarily a sociological concept and has social implications. It is easy to disregard this aspect of it in a region of the world that until recently was largely racially homogenous. Now in many parts of Europe you have vastly different cultures living together and you're seeing the social impact of this and experiencing living in an environment like that for the first time. In the Americas it has been that way for hundreds of years. We have many culturally distinct, native ethnic groups that are easily identifiable. Using outwardly visible characteristics as an easy indicator of cultural difference is very reliable, it is not that Americans want segregation, it is that all of the groups that live on the continent have identified their communities primarily using race for a very long time, it's not easy to force them all to abandon that heuristic.
_8j50 5y ago
If people can come up with new genders, why not new races? My race you ask? A Hacker! Haha
stuckinhell 5y ago
Depends on your point of reference. China has been imprisoning Uighurs (https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/chinas-repression-uyghurs-xinjiang https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/chinas-repression-uyghurs-x...). India has several different races/castes that are taking their racial conflicts globally(https://www.npr.org/transcripts/923736245 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/923736245). Mixed Person's have trouble getting bone marrow. (https://www.cancer.net/blog/2021-03/why-bone-marrow-registry-needs-more-diverse-donors-and-how-sign https://www.cancer.net/blog/2021-03/why-bone-marrow-registry...) Maybe the "race" part is going away ,but the groupings of genes and their unequal transmission through the population isnt.
dqpb 5y ago
Any time I say race is a bullshit concept, inevitably someone calls me racist.
scrubs 5y ago
Well, the article (which I hugely enjoyed reading and learned a lot from) concludes: "Those of us who believe that individual responsibility is a far better route to success than racialization can still reverse what Ylvisaker, Samora, Alinsky, and the rest have wrought." I'll hit that another way. I took an American Studies class in university required through the School of Humanities for my math degree. It was taught by a Fullbright scholar. One of the assigned books was Horatio's "Ragged Dick". By the teacher's assessment, this is a book for kids - which it is. But the shoe shiner boy in the book Dick exemplified a decently good take on what it is to be American in a way that that doesn't engage race, victimization. In particular, - Dick had street smarts - Dick worked hard, got out early to the good spots for shines. He was always on the look out for opportunity - Dick periodically bought supper for his shoe shiner fellows if they were down on their luck (empathy) - Dick did a good job on his shines and got tips - Going the other way, Dick received help and recognition from his betters (read vaguely rich) which he accepted. Through their help he got into school and received a new suit. He started to learn how to read. - Dick didn't whine; he was quick with a joke or good story. Ex: when asked why his pants were so old, dirty rather than bemoan his situation he said that in fact they were Napoleon's trousers e.g. from a strong and venerable person. To me this silly kids' book gets a lot right. Now to be fair it has been criticized too ... it's hard to fully escape injustice. A New Yorker article some years ago took Horatio to task for never engaging slavery, the class system in England, and other injustices. In a sense Horatio ducked some of the hard issues nevertheless giving a decent take on what we want in fellow Americans as I see it: go-getter, competent, forward looking, mostly cheerful, and connected to his fellows. There's some strange parallels of Ylvisaker, Samora, Alinsky to Russian intellectuals who started Communism. I not taking on or wanting to engage Communism here at all. I am simply pointing out that some strange effects arise when relatively richer, intellects try to "fix" things for other people they claim they're helping.

spupe 5y ago

There is no consistent definition of race in humans. Certainly no scientifically valid one. We are all playing word games, politically motivated ones as demonstrated by this article. That's not to say racism doesn't exist of course.

prmoustache 5y ago

European here. Back after WWII most european people, supported by the scientific community, agreed that the concept of race was not something applicable to human species. It is only used nowadays to talk about the breeding of particular groups of dogs, cats, cows and goats mostly. For us it all look weird and plain racist to hear race still being used in the US, including in official/administrative papers and law enforcement. We attribute that to a huge part of the US being reluctant to abandon segregation.

youeseh 5y ago
I understand that many Europeans think that racism no longer exists in Europe - and I've never been there to see for myself - we do get the occasional story of black athletes getting bananas thrown at them in Italy, something that is weird and just plain racist. A person caught doing that in America would be permanently banned from the venue.
- prmoustache 5y ago
  I don't think anyone say racism disappeared. I only said there has been a general consensus that human races do not exist. That do not means people suddently like people of a different color, accept other cultures or want to see them express their due freedom of religion. And I think most of the racism was kind of hidden as something people would keep for themselves or in close circles. Trump has recently acted as some kind of enabler and we see a resurgence of far-right people in many european countries not being afraid of plainly expressing their hatred and politician and writers not being afraid of getting fined. I would say the future is kind of cloudy in many european countries right now and probably all over the world in that regard. We are kind of back in the 1930's, just with better tech.
- p_l 5y ago
  It's not that racism disappeared, it's more that from European point of view, skin colour is like "Baby's first racism". We have long history on hating on much more detailed differences that appear to have disappeared from public perception in USA due to its special relationship with slavery and effective apartheid. So ultimately hating by skin colour is both more recognised and bad, and has less targets, so we keep our "good old" prejudices that go into sometimes minor things and occasionally get hilarious when people interact all nice because they aren't aware of the other person being from hated group
betwixthewires 5y ago
This is a pretty bad take, I want to use the word "ignorant" but that carries accusatory and negative connotations, I don't mean to call you names. At least in English, the word "race" does not apply to animals, the word we use for them is "breed". Race is used exclusively for human beings. It has been largely accepted that there are very little inherent anatomical or behavioral differences between races and that race is not a reliable indicator of genetic similarity or difference. But the concept of race is primarily a sociological concept and has social implications. It is easy to disregard this aspect of it in a region of the world that until recently was largely racially homogenous. Now in many parts of Europe you have vastly different cultures living together and you're seeing the social impact of this and experiencing living in an environment like that for the first time. In the Americas it has been that way for hundreds of years. We have many culturally distinct, native ethnic groups that are easily identifiable. Using outwardly visible characteristics as an easy indicator of cultural difference is very reliable, it is not that Americans want segregation, it is that all of the groups that live on the continent have identified their communities primarily using race for a very long time, it's not easy to force them all to abandon that heuristic.

_8j50 5y ago

If people can come up with new genders, why not new races? My race you ask? A Hacker! Haha

stuckinhell 5y ago

Depends on your point of reference. China has been imprisoning Uighurs (https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/chinas-repression-uyghurs-xinjiang https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/chinas-repression-uyghurs-x...). India has several different races/castes that are taking their racial conflicts globally(https://www.npr.org/transcripts/923736245 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/923736245). Mixed Person's have trouble getting bone marrow. (https://www.cancer.net/blog/2021-03/why-bone-marrow-registry-needs-more-diverse-donors-and-how-sign https://www.cancer.net/blog/2021-03/why-bone-marrow-registry...) Maybe the "race" part is going away ,but the groupings of genes and their unequal transmission through the population isnt.

dqpb 5y ago

Any time I say race is a bullshit concept, inevitably someone calls me racist.

scrubs 5y ago

Well, the article (which I hugely enjoyed reading and learned a lot from) concludes: "Those of us who believe that individual responsibility is a far better route to success than racialization can still reverse what Ylvisaker, Samora, Alinsky, and the rest have wrought." I'll hit that another way. I took an American Studies class in university required through the School of Humanities for my math degree. It was taught by a Fullbright scholar. One of the assigned books was Horatio's "Ragged Dick". By the teacher's assessment, this is a book for kids - which it is. But the shoe shiner boy in the book Dick exemplified a decently good take on what it is to be American in a way that that doesn't engage race, victimization. In particular, - Dick had street smarts - Dick worked hard, got out early to the good spots for shines. He was always on the look out for opportunity - Dick periodically bought supper for his shoe shiner fellows if they were down on their luck (empathy) - Dick did a good job on his shines and got tips - Going the other way, Dick received help and recognition from his betters (read vaguely rich) which he accepted. Through their help he got into school and received a new suit. He started to learn how to read. - Dick didn't whine; he was quick with a joke or good story. Ex: when asked why his pants were so old, dirty rather than bemoan his situation he said that in fact they were Napoleon's trousers e.g. from a strong and venerable person. To me this silly kids' book gets a lot right. Now to be fair it has been criticized too ... it's hard to fully escape injustice. A New Yorker article some years ago took Horatio to task for never engaging slavery, the class system in England, and other injustices. In a sense Horatio ducked some of the hard issues nevertheless giving a decent take on what we want in fellow Americans as I see it: go-getter, competent, forward looking, mostly cheerful, and connected to his fellows. There's some strange parallels of Ylvisaker, Samora, Alinsky to Russian intellectuals who started Communism. I not taking on or wanting to engage Communism here at all. I am simply pointing out that some strange effects arise when relatively richer, intellects try to "fix" things for other people they claim they're helping.