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This article basically centers it's argument around the fact that people in small town america don't need an education to survive. With increased automation and

by jxcole 15y ago

This article basically centers it's argument around the fact that people in small town america don't need an education to survive. With increased automation and robots, that is quickly changing. I bet in 30 years we'll see a complete shift in American culture where education is absolutely necessary just to survive.

potatolicious 15y ago
The reality will change in America long before the culture will. The Asian obsession with education is ingrained from literally over a thousand years of systemized, central testing. I have my doubts that The American middle class (or, those who were once the middle class) will go from borderline anti-intellectual to embracing the need for education, in a mere 30 years.
- lsc 15y ago
  "Never let your schooling interfere with your education" - there is a big difference between educating yourself for the real world and educating yourself for a test; this difference, I think, can possibly give the Americans an advantage. I do think that this American anti-intellectualism is a relatively new (and hopefully temporary) thing. I mean, if you can earn a good living working at a factory, you do what you are told, right? you don't go changing the system 'cause you think it's better. But really, I think this is largely a post-great-war thing, and hopefully it will fade. Really, as far as I can tell, schooling, if anything, makes this problem worse. You ever hire someone out of college? Most of them seem to think they should do what you tell them to do, no more and no less. And they expect fairly explicit instructions. The self-taught seem to be much more open to "hey, I need task X done. Go figure it out"
  - jleader 15y ago
    I think you may be conflating anti-intellectualism and need for structure. The need for structure is probably newer, as people grow up in an increasingly structured society. On the other hand, I think there is an American strain of anti-intellectualism that goes much deeper, to our national myth of "taming the frontier". We don't need no diplomas out here on the frontier!
    - lsc 15y ago
      Maybe. I dono. I don't automatically equate diplomas to learning. I mean, sure, lots of people learn things at school... but lots of people get degrees without learning anything useful, too, and I'm not sure why, say, an art history degree should be respected any more than four years spent backpacking around the world. Most of the people I see shouting about anti-intellectualism have degrees, sure, but most of them are degrees in art history or other fields that are not applicable to creating or fixing anything, so maybe I /am/ the American anti-intellectualism that they speak of, because I value knowledge based on what it can be used to achieve, rather than knowledge that indicates belonging in a certain class, and because I don't have a lot of respect for degrees. I mean, I have a lot of respect for people who learned useful things and got a degree along the way... but I don't see the degree as primary; I see the learning as primary. I see a degree in art history a little bit like buying a lexus; It shows that you are a person of leisure.
      - pyre 15y ago
        Some examples of anti-intellectualism in-grained into American culture: - 'jocks' are celebrated while 'nerds' are persecuted at the high school level, and to a lesser extent at the college/university level. - Someone that's smart is looked down on because they 'ruined the curve' for everyone else by acing a test. - College/University are culturally seen as one large drunken orgy.
        lsc 15y ago
        >- 'jocks' are celebrated while 'nerds' are persecuted at the high school level, and to a lesser extent at the college/university level. It's a huge problem. My understanding is that the definition of "Ivy league college" actually refers to what colleges play sports against what other colleges. An absolutely insane way to rank schools. Hell, we subsidize sports stadiums as adults; stadiums that cause significant traffic problems, and if you ask me, attract an undesirable element. This is actually one of the things I really like about silicon valley; I don't know anyone who doesn't work a service job who is really into sports. >- College/University are culturally seen as one large drunken orgy. Wait, you mean it's not a large drunken orgy? I mean, I'm half joking, but outside of the math and engineering majors, I'm under the impression that a lot of partying happens. But this goes back to my own prejudice against liberal arts majors. Does that prejudice make me an anti-intellectual?
- briandear 15y ago
  That happened with exercise. Suddenly, in the 1960s and 1970s fitness became a massive priority for millions of Americans. The paradigm shift happened almost immediately. 50 years ago you would only work out if you were an athlete or a soldier. A value was placed on wellness much like a value will eventually be placed on education. Also watching parents sit in unemployment lines because the factory closed is serving as a wakeup call to many people. Don't overestimate the Asians either -- their concept of education is quantitative (i.e how high we're your scores or how many vocabulary words did you learn) while Americans tend to be more qualitative. There's a reason innovation in places like China depends on copying everyone else. What major startups in China have been built based on an original idea? Very very few. There are more successful startups based on new ideas in the Bay Area than in the entirety of China. The successful Chinese companies are almost always rehashed versions of American products. Education isn't the driving force behind success in China -- at least not Chinese education.
  - godarderik 15y ago
    > A value was placed on wellness much like a value will eventually be placed on education. Then how are obesity rates at all times highs?
    - ww 15y ago
      The diet changed, and more then compensated for the exercise change.
  - nasmorn 15y ago
    50 years ago the average person did more working out as a matter of just living his life than the average person today does doing half assed cardio on an elliptical machine.
  - narag 15y ago
    Is this exclusive of China? USA seems to be the exception (in the other direction), not China. Most Internet startups are from the USA, why? It's probably because of several causes: the cultural factors that you mention, of course, but also because it's easier to create a company than in other countries, because there are VCs supporting this kind of company, and I'd say because there is a very important internal market willing to buy the products.
namityadav 15y ago
No, the article says that even if in 30 years we'll see a world where education will be absolutely necessary to survive, small town america isn't aware of this fact, or ignores this fact for more short-term matters.

by jxcole 15y ago

potatolicious 15y ago

The reality will change in America long before the culture will. The Asian obsession with education is ingrained from literally over a thousand years of systemized, central testing. I have my doubts that The American middle class (or, those who were once the middle class) will go from borderline anti-intellectual to embracing the need for education, in a mere 30 years.

lsc 15y ago
"Never let your schooling interfere with your education" - there is a big difference between educating yourself for the real world and educating yourself for a test; this difference, I think, can possibly give the Americans an advantage. I do think that this American anti-intellectualism is a relatively new (and hopefully temporary) thing. I mean, if you can earn a good living working at a factory, you do what you are told, right? you don't go changing the system 'cause you think it's better. But really, I think this is largely a post-great-war thing, and hopefully it will fade. Really, as far as I can tell, schooling, if anything, makes this problem worse. You ever hire someone out of college? Most of them seem to think they should do what you tell them to do, no more and no less. And they expect fairly explicit instructions. The self-taught seem to be much more open to "hey, I need task X done. Go figure it out"
- jleader 15y ago
  I think you may be conflating anti-intellectualism and need for structure. The need for structure is probably newer, as people grow up in an increasingly structured society. On the other hand, I think there is an American strain of anti-intellectualism that goes much deeper, to our national myth of "taming the frontier". We don't need no diplomas out here on the frontier!
  - lsc 15y ago
    Maybe. I dono. I don't automatically equate diplomas to learning. I mean, sure, lots of people learn things at school... but lots of people get degrees without learning anything useful, too, and I'm not sure why, say, an art history degree should be respected any more than four years spent backpacking around the world. Most of the people I see shouting about anti-intellectualism have degrees, sure, but most of them are degrees in art history or other fields that are not applicable to creating or fixing anything, so maybe I /am/ the American anti-intellectualism that they speak of, because I value knowledge based on what it can be used to achieve, rather than knowledge that indicates belonging in a certain class, and because I don't have a lot of respect for degrees. I mean, I have a lot of respect for people who learned useful things and got a degree along the way... but I don't see the degree as primary; I see the learning as primary. I see a degree in art history a little bit like buying a lexus; It shows that you are a person of leisure.
    - pyre 15y ago
      Some examples of anti-intellectualism in-grained into American culture: - 'jocks' are celebrated while 'nerds' are persecuted at the high school level, and to a lesser extent at the college/university level. - Someone that's smart is looked down on because they 'ruined the curve' for everyone else by acing a test. - College/University are culturally seen as one large drunken orgy.
      - lsc 15y ago
        >- 'jocks' are celebrated while 'nerds' are persecuted at the high school level, and to a lesser extent at the college/university level. It's a huge problem. My understanding is that the definition of "Ivy league college" actually refers to what colleges play sports against what other colleges. An absolutely insane way to rank schools. Hell, we subsidize sports stadiums as adults; stadiums that cause significant traffic problems, and if you ask me, attract an undesirable element. This is actually one of the things I really like about silicon valley; I don't know anyone who doesn't work a service job who is really into sports. >- College/University are culturally seen as one large drunken orgy. Wait, you mean it's not a large drunken orgy? I mean, I'm half joking, but outside of the math and engineering majors, I'm under the impression that a lot of partying happens. But this goes back to my own prejudice against liberal arts majors. Does that prejudice make me an anti-intellectual?
briandear 15y ago
That happened with exercise. Suddenly, in the 1960s and 1970s fitness became a massive priority for millions of Americans. The paradigm shift happened almost immediately. 50 years ago you would only work out if you were an athlete or a soldier. A value was placed on wellness much like a value will eventually be placed on education. Also watching parents sit in unemployment lines because the factory closed is serving as a wakeup call to many people. Don't overestimate the Asians either -- their concept of education is quantitative (i.e how high we're your scores or how many vocabulary words did you learn) while Americans tend to be more qualitative. There's a reason innovation in places like China depends on copying everyone else. What major startups in China have been built based on an original idea? Very very few. There are more successful startups based on new ideas in the Bay Area than in the entirety of China. The successful Chinese companies are almost always rehashed versions of American products. Education isn't the driving force behind success in China -- at least not Chinese education.
- godarderik 15y ago
  > A value was placed on wellness much like a value will eventually be placed on education. Then how are obesity rates at all times highs?
  - ww 15y ago
    The diet changed, and more then compensated for the exercise change.
- nasmorn 15y ago
  50 years ago the average person did more working out as a matter of just living his life than the average person today does doing half assed cardio on an elliptical machine.
- narag 15y ago
  Is this exclusive of China? USA seems to be the exception (in the other direction), not China. Most Internet startups are from the USA, why? It's probably because of several causes: the cultural factors that you mention, of course, but also because it's easier to create a company than in other countries, because there are VCs supporting this kind of company, and I'd say because there is a very important internal market willing to buy the products.

namityadav 15y ago

No, the article says that even if in 30 years we'll see a world where education will be absolutely necessary to survive, small town america isn't aware of this fact, or ignores this fact for more short-term matters.