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As a binational, I am always amazed by the nationalism in the USA. I'm not even talking about "ultras" like many far-right groups, just "normal decent people".
by FrenchAmerican 5y ago
As a binational, I am always amazed by the nationalism in the USA. I'm not even talking about "ultras" like many far-right groups, just "normal decent people".
An US flag on almost every house, the pledge of allegiance at school, the belief into the American exceptional destiny, the belief to be the best country in the world...
I lived in Brazil for 5 years and they are very nationalist as well. Many young Chinese as well.
Patriotism is one thing, nationalism another. In Europe, we have learned that the hard way. Obviously, we are slowly forgetting the horrendous wars of the past, since nationalist political parties are getting more and more votes.
The distance from nationalism to ultranationalism becomes very short when a crisis appears. At the beginning of the Putin's unprovoked invasion, many Ukrainians wanted to fight for democracy. With the huge destructions and killings, I hear more and more their initial patriotism turning into essentialism: I'll die for Ukraine, Russians are barbarians by nature, etc. That's quite understandable, but still is a concern.
Note that I do think that a large majority of Russians are favorable to this war, in the sense of a necessity. Even if they were able to listen to independent media, I doubt that it would change their mind. The collective representation is that Ukraine is part of Russia - which is not true but still taken as a self-evident truth.
If the Russian people had access to independent information, they woukd be angry towards Putin for not succeeding, for the disorganization of the Russian army, for putting their sons at risk with a bad strategy and bad intelligence. Only a minority would oppose the war on historical grounds, or in the name of the sovereignty of the Ukrainian people.
When the French army was fighting against the independence of Algeria, or during the Vietnam war, few were opposing the war. The opposition went larger and larger in the US when the draft was imposed to the youth. Otherwise...
Unconditional support of "our" troups whatever the reasons for war is widely expected, if not considered as a civic duty. To me, that's the essence of nationalism: we are right because our country can't possibly be wrong. That's exactly what many Russians say when interviewed by western media. "Of course, Ukraine is a part of Russia. Of course, our army don't kill civilians."
When I cite the 2nd Iraq war, most of my American friends (educated & decent people) say: "Oh, that was a mistake". Yeah, a "mistake"... Tens of thousand civilians killed is a bit more than "a mistake". In France, most people don't know that hundreds of thousands of Algerians were killed during the Algeria War.
We, humans, are not social animals ; we are tribal animals.
- wrp 5y agoThat was quite thoughtful, and I agree with almost everything you said, but I want to cast doubt on one thing. You feel that Europeans are managing to evolve beyond their traditional tribalism. I think they aren't, but are just transferring their tribal identification to "Europe." As an illustration, consider what happened with Brexit. When the UK voted to secede from the EU, there was an enormous outpouring of violent emotion from continental Europeans who seemed to feel personally insulted.