4 ms·

Granted we’re on a startup forum and most of us develop services: > It's so much more convenient to just hand someone a $20 and walk away with the item than to

Granted we’re on a startup forum and most of us develop services: > It's so much more convenient to just hand someone a $20 and walk away with the item than to spend the 5 mins dallying on venmo trying to look up their handle Wouldn’t this be solved at the matching level ? You probably found that person online, checked the photos and description and decided to make the transaction. If there is a “complete the purchase“ button you just click, there would be no thumbling in Venmo. And this is exactly my experience with local marketplace sites. > If I hand a waiter cash, I know it goes to them. It might be different where you live, but they can be requested by contract to add it to a pool. The same way when you pay your meal you hand the waiter cash but it doesn’t go to them. > Credit card info can be leaked or scammed many ways. Meanwhile, with a cash payment our relationship is severed the minute I leave the establishment. Wait, have you ever been scammed by paying by card in an offline setting ? Or have the transaction replayed or reused ? How would it work ? > I know that should these businesses have to go from grey market to white market they wouldn't nearly be so viable. This is I think the most prevalent point. Going forward I’d only see prepaid offline system to cover this, and we’re not there yet on the user to user money exchange side (it currently only works in a centralized setting as far as I know)

et-al 5y ago
Another issue with Venmo is the possibility of shady buyers using stolen credit cards. So a week later, the transaction is reversed and you're out $300 and the item you just sold. As a seller, I'd rather just take cash. The new IRS $600 reporting limit for 2022 is also a joke.
- makeitdouble 5y ago
  The focus on Venmo is because you are in the US I guess ? The credit card reversal part is solved by 3D Secure 2.0, where the barrier to get a transaction reversed is way higher (the issuing bank has the responsibility to validate it comes from the customer). I don't know how fast it's adopted outside of the EU, but we're far from the days where you just passed operations with a stolen number and a valid CVC.
  - alexb_ 5y ago
    You cannot just throw technology at a human problem and expect it to be solved. Scams will always exist as long as there is someone to be scammed. No amount of technology can "solve" this problem.
    - makeitdouble 5y ago
      We're talking here about a case that was introduced by technology (wide possibility to emit chargebacks) and is fixed by technology (severely limit chargeback potential).
wolverine876 5y ago
> Wouldn’t this be solved at the matching level ? You probably found that person online Believe it or not, lots of transaction happen without finding someone online - maybe most, for most of the world. I think most of my transactions are offline. > they [waitstaff] can be requested by contract to add it [the tip] to a pool I don't think restaurants follow laws that closely.
- makeitdouble 5y ago
  The discussion is on digital vs cash transactions. If we're setting the stage in Ethiopia for instance, I think there isn't much to argue, realistically you won't be buying your coffee with prepaid digital wallets either way.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > The discussion is on digital vs cash transactions. If we're setting the stage in Ethiopia for instance, I think there isn't much to argue I'm not talking about Ethiopia, but advanced economies. Maybe you are in a bubble where everyone arranges everything online?
    - makeitdouble 5y ago
      This is a simple by a bit rough infographics from 2014: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/07/02/cashless_society.infographic.jpg http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/07/02/cashless_soci... A more accurate picture IMO (still from 5 years ago) https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/11/13/business/dealbook/cashless-economy-1510616454189/cashless-economy-1510616454189-facebookJumbo.png https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/11/13/business/dealbook...
  - StanislavPetrov 5y ago
    I live in New York and the majority of my transactions are done in cash, and happen in person, not online.
asdff 5y ago
IMO I prefer seeing things in hand before buying them usually. I have gone to see things that looked great online and walked away from the sale when I saw the flaws in person, so unless I am truly desperate I wouldn't want to buy something before I can see it especially when its used. I've never heard of the tipping contract thing in the U.S., but even still if I give them straight cash that gives the waiter an opportunity to put some in their pocket and the rest into that pool. I've never been scammed personally, but there was a time when credit card skimmers were bad at my college campus/city back when I went. I at least wiggle card readers as hard as I can now at gas stations and ATMs. Plus these days with all your card info being printed on one side of the credit card, it would only take one person behind you in line to snap a quick photo and they have all the info they need suddenly to make purchases.
bee_rider 5y ago
>> Credit card info can be leaked or scammed many ways. Meanwhile, with a cash payment our relationship is severed the minute I leave the establishment. > Wait, have you ever been scammed by paying by card in an offline setting ? Or have the transaction replayed or reused ? How would it work ? I know a couple people who've been hit by credit card skimmers. It is harder with chip-and-pin but people doing frauds are pretty clever.

et-al 5y ago

Another issue with Venmo is the possibility of shady buyers using stolen credit cards. So a week later, the transaction is reversed and you're out $300 and the item you just sold. As a seller, I'd rather just take cash. The new IRS $600 reporting limit for 2022 is also a joke.

makeitdouble 5y ago
The focus on Venmo is because you are in the US I guess ? The credit card reversal part is solved by 3D Secure 2.0, where the barrier to get a transaction reversed is way higher (the issuing bank has the responsibility to validate it comes from the customer). I don't know how fast it's adopted outside of the EU, but we're far from the days where you just passed operations with a stolen number and a valid CVC.
- alexb_ 5y ago
  You cannot just throw technology at a human problem and expect it to be solved. Scams will always exist as long as there is someone to be scammed. No amount of technology can "solve" this problem.
  - makeitdouble 5y ago
    We're talking here about a case that was introduced by technology (wide possibility to emit chargebacks) and is fixed by technology (severely limit chargeback potential).

wolverine876 5y ago

> Wouldn’t this be solved at the matching level ? You probably found that person online Believe it or not, lots of transaction happen without finding someone online - maybe most, for most of the world. I think most of my transactions are offline. > they [waitstaff] can be requested by contract to add it [the tip] to a pool I don't think restaurants follow laws that closely.

makeitdouble 5y ago
The discussion is on digital vs cash transactions. If we're setting the stage in Ethiopia for instance, I think there isn't much to argue, realistically you won't be buying your coffee with prepaid digital wallets either way.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > The discussion is on digital vs cash transactions. If we're setting the stage in Ethiopia for instance, I think there isn't much to argue I'm not talking about Ethiopia, but advanced economies. Maybe you are in a bubble where everyone arranges everything online?
  - makeitdouble 5y ago
    This is a simple by a bit rough infographics from 2014: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/07/02/cashless_society.infographic.jpg http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/07/02/cashless_soci... A more accurate picture IMO (still from 5 years ago) https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/11/13/business/dealbook/cashless-economy-1510616454189/cashless-economy-1510616454189-facebookJumbo.png https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/11/13/business/dealbook...
- StanislavPetrov 5y ago
  I live in New York and the majority of my transactions are done in cash, and happen in person, not online.

asdff 5y ago

IMO I prefer seeing things in hand before buying them usually. I have gone to see things that looked great online and walked away from the sale when I saw the flaws in person, so unless I am truly desperate I wouldn't want to buy something before I can see it especially when its used. I've never heard of the tipping contract thing in the U.S., but even still if I give them straight cash that gives the waiter an opportunity to put some in their pocket and the rest into that pool. I've never been scammed personally, but there was a time when credit card skimmers were bad at my college campus/city back when I went. I at least wiggle card readers as hard as I can now at gas stations and ATMs. Plus these days with all your card info being printed on one side of the credit card, it would only take one person behind you in line to snap a quick photo and they have all the info they need suddenly to make purchases.

bee_rider 5y ago

>> Credit card info can be leaked or scammed many ways. Meanwhile, with a cash payment our relationship is severed the minute I leave the establishment. > Wait, have you ever been scammed by paying by card in an offline setting ? Or have the transaction replayed or reused ? How would it work ? I know a couple people who've been hit by credit card skimmers. It is harder with chip-and-pin but people doing frauds are pretty clever.