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Also known as "It's ok to ostracize 20% of the more vulnerable people when it's something I like."

by daenz 5y ago

rufusroflpunch 5y ago
Also known as “democracy.”
- gruez 5y ago
  Which is why we also have a more specific term called "liberal democracy"
- wolverine876 5y ago
  That's not democracy, as it's actually conceived. Democracy isn't mob rule, but is about individual self-determination and rights.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    Democracy is absolutely not about individual anything. You might want to add individual self-determination and rights to the governing principles of a particular organization, state or nation, but there's nothing about the idea of the people voting (directly or indirectly) on policy that offers any guarantee of any kind of self-determination. Democracy absolutely can be mob rule, or put differently, mob rule is not inherently not democratic. Whether it is wise or just however, are different questions entirely, and so most democracies in the last few hundred years have supplemented their democratic systems of governance with fundamentally liberal but non-democratic constitutions that limit the scope of majoritarian decision making.
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      > Democracy is absolutely not about individual anything. You can write that, but clearly most of the democratic world very strongly disagrees. We can nitpick the literal definitions of the words, but we know that people include self-determination and human rights with democracy.
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
Also known as the "The Daily Telegraph can quote someone saying "against its will" when its only 20% against it, as long as they also have doubts about it". What would you consider "the will of the UK" to be on this issue? What did you consider "the will of the UK" to be at the last election, or over the issue of Brexit? Presumably we need some mechanism to decide the answer to such questions, and a majority is the one we've leaned into for some time.

Also known as "It's ok to ostracize 20% of the more vulnerable people when it's something I like."

by daenz 5y ago

Also known as "It's ok to ostracize 20% of the more vulnerable people when it's something I like."

rufusroflpunch 5y ago

Also known as “democracy.”

gruez 5y ago
Which is why we also have a more specific term called "liberal democracy"
wolverine876 5y ago
That's not democracy, as it's actually conceived. Democracy isn't mob rule, but is about individual self-determination and rights.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  Democracy is absolutely not about individual anything. You might want to add individual self-determination and rights to the governing principles of a particular organization, state or nation, but there's nothing about the idea of the people voting (directly or indirectly) on policy that offers any guarantee of any kind of self-determination. Democracy absolutely can be mob rule, or put differently, mob rule is not inherently not democratic. Whether it is wise or just however, are different questions entirely, and so most democracies in the last few hundred years have supplemented their democratic systems of governance with fundamentally liberal but non-democratic constitutions that limit the scope of majoritarian decision making.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > Democracy is absolutely not about individual anything. You can write that, but clearly most of the democratic world very strongly disagrees. We can nitpick the literal definitions of the words, but we know that people include self-determination and human rights with democracy.

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago

Also known as the "The Daily Telegraph can quote someone saying "against its will" when its only 20% against it, as long as they also have doubts about it". What would you consider "the will of the UK" to be on this issue? What did you consider "the will of the UK" to be at the last election, or over the issue of Brexit? Presumably we need some mechanism to decide the answer to such questions, and a majority is the one we've leaned into for some time.