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As someone also with ADHD, I can relate in a lot of these respects. The idea of doing pair programming every fucking day would ruin me. I really don't mind coll

As someone also with ADHD, I can relate in a lot of these respects. The idea of doing pair programming every fucking day would ruin me. I really don't mind collaborating or discussing with people, because I think that's what our brains are great for, but not in the pair programming sense, and not every day. In my last job, I was very open about this, but my manager seemed to basically brush it off and pull up a chair whenever he felt that was cool. "Time for pair programming". Bleh, thankfully I burnt out and got fired. I've been following a very similar path as you describe in your last paragraph, and I'd be very curious if there are other similarities that differ from how others write code. By chance, do you struggle with eating sounds in offices to the point where you panic?

ratww 5y ago
I don't think I have ADHD, but I burned out pretty quickly after a few months of 8h/day pair programming. I started taking medication and took some extended vacation. Thankfully the CEO of the company wasn't much into it, so he forced our pointy-haired boss of a manager to make it optional. The whole team unanimously decided to never do it again.
- brailsafe 5y ago
  This almost made me tear up. I've genuinely never thought before this thread that there were companies that did this, and that it's just not a big deal to people with decision making power. I don't do anything for 8 hrs a day, but if I had no choice but to be doing 8 hrs per day of pair programming, I'd really be having some dark thoughts. Not exaggerating, this scares the shit out of me. Thanks for sharing. I actually feel like I need to step away from my computer and relax a bit just trying to imagine myself in that position.
  - smaudet 5y ago
    Makes me almost wonder what management is actually good for, besides a high level filtering system... I like continous pair programming, but not because I actually continuously pair - if someone wants to watch me work, or is too green to go it alone quite yet, its fine. But usually we only pair when it makes sense to, i.e. we are at the beginning of something and figuring out what to split up. If management tried to force real continuous pairing down everyone's throat all the time....yeah no. That management should be fired, they don't understand how people work.
    - brailsafe 5y ago
      Ya, seems reasonable enough. You have control over the gate, either to teach or to work something out. People are allowed to have an opinion on this in general.
  - ratww 5y ago
    Yeah, in this case was a single manager abusing his power, who doubled down whenever we aired our grievances, to the point of forbidding talking about it. The CEO however was more sympathetic to our pleas. The 8h shift looking at a shared screen was absolute terror. No privacy, a lot of machismo with people claiming "I don't need to look at the documentation", terrible productivity when pairing with certain employees that didn't really took the work seriously. Mandatory pairing simply doesn't work, period. It's like they say about therapy, wanting to do it is a pre-requisite for it working...
falcolas 5y ago
> By chance, do you struggle with eating sounds in offices to the point where you panic? Yes. Especially ice chewers. Which one PM thought was hilarious as he worked through a cup of just ice.
- brailsafe 5y ago
  I had a coworker at the same last job I mentioned, that sat next to me in our open office, and used to crack and eat eggs at his desk, among 4 other meals that he'd decide not to bring to the kitchen. I literally couldn't find a pair of earmuffs or headphones that could help me get back in the zone after hearing that.
kayodelycaon 5y ago
> By chance, do you struggle with eating sounds in offices to the point where you panic? Not particularly, but having to deal with distacting sounds, pressure to focus, and feeling trapped in a cubical can definitely make me uncomfortably anxious.
- brailsafe 5y ago
  Agreed. I've never been in a true individual cubicle thankfully. Only pod style ones.
briandear 5y ago
> By chance, do you struggle with eating sounds in offices to the point where you panic? Not to be rude, but the stereotype of the software developer is fast becoming one of fragility. A low wage worker spending their day working a fryer or a guy at a construction site would be thrilled to have such working conditions to where their biggest problem is someone eating too closely while making $100k+ per year in the air conditioning.
- bobkazamakis 5y ago
  >Not to be rude, but the stereotype of the software developer is fast becoming one of fragility. A low wage worker spending their day working a fryer or a guy at a construction site would be thrilled to have such working conditions to where their biggest problem is someone eating too closely while making $100k+ per year in the air conditioning. Oh my! People complaining about things that are relative to the situation they are in! How fragile!
- Lownin 5y ago
  Misophonia is a real thing that is genuinely difficult to deal with for those of us who have it.
- kayodelycaon 5y ago
  Only if the person in question is merely annoyed by such sounds. For some people, it’s quite literally perceived as someone’s kid screaming next to them. What people forget is, we don’t have a choice. People who have a disability will have to deal with it no matter what job they do. It’s like yelling at a person in a wheelchair to stop bitching about the lack of an elevator in a three-story office building because they have a “good job” and getting up the stairs isn’t a big deal because you do it every day. This analogy may sound like an exaggeration, because there is no way you can comprehend something so minor and trivial could be a problem. And that’s kind of the point. It’s extremely difficult to understand something you haven’t experienced. Most people jump to the conclusion that these things aren’t a big deal and they’ve seen people lie about it to manipulate people. Therefore, a person claiming to have a disability that isn’t obvious is lying to get things they don’t deserve. Not everyone has a fully working brain or body. :(
Lownin 5y ago
Fellow ADHDer here. That issue with eating noises is called misophonia. Check out the subreddit.

ratww 5y ago

I don't think I have ADHD, but I burned out pretty quickly after a few months of 8h/day pair programming. I started taking medication and took some extended vacation. Thankfully the CEO of the company wasn't much into it, so he forced our pointy-haired boss of a manager to make it optional. The whole team unanimously decided to never do it again.

brailsafe 5y ago
This almost made me tear up. I've genuinely never thought before this thread that there were companies that did this, and that it's just not a big deal to people with decision making power. I don't do anything for 8 hrs a day, but if I had no choice but to be doing 8 hrs per day of pair programming, I'd really be having some dark thoughts. Not exaggerating, this scares the shit out of me. Thanks for sharing. I actually feel like I need to step away from my computer and relax a bit just trying to imagine myself in that position.
- smaudet 5y ago
  Makes me almost wonder what management is actually good for, besides a high level filtering system... I like continous pair programming, but not because I actually continuously pair - if someone wants to watch me work, or is too green to go it alone quite yet, its fine. But usually we only pair when it makes sense to, i.e. we are at the beginning of something and figuring out what to split up. If management tried to force real continuous pairing down everyone's throat all the time....yeah no. That management should be fired, they don't understand how people work.
  - brailsafe 5y ago
    Ya, seems reasonable enough. You have control over the gate, either to teach or to work something out. People are allowed to have an opinion on this in general.
- ratww 5y ago
  Yeah, in this case was a single manager abusing his power, who doubled down whenever we aired our grievances, to the point of forbidding talking about it. The CEO however was more sympathetic to our pleas. The 8h shift looking at a shared screen was absolute terror. No privacy, a lot of machismo with people claiming "I don't need to look at the documentation", terrible productivity when pairing with certain employees that didn't really took the work seriously. Mandatory pairing simply doesn't work, period. It's like they say about therapy, wanting to do it is a pre-requisite for it working...

falcolas 5y ago

> By chance, do you struggle with eating sounds in offices to the point where you panic? Yes. Especially ice chewers. Which one PM thought was hilarious as he worked through a cup of just ice.

brailsafe 5y ago
I had a coworker at the same last job I mentioned, that sat next to me in our open office, and used to crack and eat eggs at his desk, among 4 other meals that he'd decide not to bring to the kitchen. I literally couldn't find a pair of earmuffs or headphones that could help me get back in the zone after hearing that.

kayodelycaon 5y ago

> By chance, do you struggle with eating sounds in offices to the point where you panic? Not particularly, but having to deal with distacting sounds, pressure to focus, and feeling trapped in a cubical can definitely make me uncomfortably anxious.

brailsafe 5y ago
Agreed. I've never been in a true individual cubicle thankfully. Only pod style ones.

briandear 5y ago

> By chance, do you struggle with eating sounds in offices to the point where you panic? Not to be rude, but the stereotype of the software developer is fast becoming one of fragility. A low wage worker spending their day working a fryer or a guy at a construction site would be thrilled to have such working conditions to where their biggest problem is someone eating too closely while making $100k+ per year in the air conditioning.

bobkazamakis 5y ago
>Not to be rude, but the stereotype of the software developer is fast becoming one of fragility. A low wage worker spending their day working a fryer or a guy at a construction site would be thrilled to have such working conditions to where their biggest problem is someone eating too closely while making $100k+ per year in the air conditioning. Oh my! People complaining about things that are relative to the situation they are in! How fragile!
Lownin 5y ago
Misophonia is a real thing that is genuinely difficult to deal with for those of us who have it.
kayodelycaon 5y ago
Only if the person in question is merely annoyed by such sounds. For some people, it’s quite literally perceived as someone’s kid screaming next to them. What people forget is, we don’t have a choice. People who have a disability will have to deal with it no matter what job they do. It’s like yelling at a person in a wheelchair to stop bitching about the lack of an elevator in a three-story office building because they have a “good job” and getting up the stairs isn’t a big deal because you do it every day. This analogy may sound like an exaggeration, because there is no way you can comprehend something so minor and trivial could be a problem. And that’s kind of the point. It’s extremely difficult to understand something you haven’t experienced. Most people jump to the conclusion that these things aren’t a big deal and they’ve seen people lie about it to manipulate people. Therefore, a person claiming to have a disability that isn’t obvious is lying to get things they don’t deserve. Not everyone has a fully working brain or body. :(

Lownin 5y ago

Fellow ADHDer here. That issue with eating noises is called misophonia. Check out the subreddit.