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You seem to be conflating level 3 with level 4. A level 4 car would, by definition, never require you to take over while the vehicle is in motion. This level o

by shkkmo 5y ago

You seem to be conflating level 3 with level 4. A level 4 car would, by definition, never require you to take over while the vehicle is in motion. This level of automation operates safely with nobody in the driver's seat. A level 3 car requires a driver to pay full attention and "zoning out" would be unsafe behavior on behalf of the driver. Level 3 is considered by many to be dangerous given the human propensity to zone out despite being responsible.

acdha 5y ago
If you read more carefully note that this is precisely why I drew that distinction: until you reach the point of level 4 everywhere under all conditions, you are going to have build systems which safely handle that challenge of inconsistent attention. Nobody is anywhere near that consistently high level of performance so there's an important question about how you can safely implement these systems — for example, a system which could be level 4 on a well-maintained road might be suitable for a driver-less transit system with a well-defined route even if the fire department are driving their own trucks for decades to come. One key question here is how you'd handle the cases where the system can't reliably perform at the top level. Consider the scenario I described earlier with a system which was level 4 in reasonable conditions: attempting to switch between full self-driving and human oversight frequently would be a safety hazard but you could probably safely release a system which is, say, L4 for long highway trips where a human driver could take a nap for an hour before having to take control to enter a complex city like Boston where the system would you to treat it as L3 or less for the entire trip during bad storm conditions or construction because it's safer to set the expected level of attention clearly at the beginning of the trip.
- shkkmo 5y ago
  > the point of level 4 everywhere under all conditions That isn't level 4, that is level 5. > you are going to have build systems which safely handle that challenge of inconsistent attention Level 4 is geofenced, but able to perform safely without any level of attention from any human driver. If a human is required to be in the driver's seat to take over on demand, then you are describing level 3, not level 4. > attempting to switch between full self-driving and human oversight frequently would be a safety hazard It shouldn't be. If a self-driving system can't safely reach a place to park in a region, with no human interaction, it is not level 4 in that region.
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by shkkmo 5y ago

acdha 5y ago

If you read more carefully note that this is precisely why I drew that distinction: until you reach the point of level 4 everywhere under all conditions, you are going to have build systems which safely handle that challenge of inconsistent attention. Nobody is anywhere near that consistently high level of performance so there's an important question about how you can safely implement these systems — for example, a system which could be level 4 on a well-maintained road might be suitable for a driver-less transit system with a well-defined route even if the fire department are driving their own trucks for decades to come. One key question here is how you'd handle the cases where the system can't reliably perform at the top level. Consider the scenario I described earlier with a system which was level 4 in reasonable conditions: attempting to switch between full self-driving and human oversight frequently would be a safety hazard but you could probably safely release a system which is, say, L4 for long highway trips where a human driver could take a nap for an hour before having to take control to enter a complex city like Boston where the system would you to treat it as L3 or less for the entire trip during bad storm conditions or construction because it's safer to set the expected level of attention clearly at the beginning of the trip.

shkkmo 5y ago
> the point of level 4 everywhere under all conditions That isn't level 4, that is level 5. > you are going to have build systems which safely handle that challenge of inconsistent attention Level 4 is geofenced, but able to perform safely without any level of attention from any human driver. If a human is required to be in the driver's seat to take over on demand, then you are describing level 3, not level 4. > attempting to switch between full self-driving and human oversight frequently would be a safety hazard It shouldn't be. If a self-driving system can't safely reach a place to park in a region, with no human interaction, it is not level 4 in that region.
- deleted 5y ago
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