4 ms·

100% this. I feel like there's a ton of innovation in the cloud/container CI/CD space, but next to nothing elsewhere. In fact, some of the innovations in CI/CD

by jaaron 5y ago

100% this. I feel like there's a ton of innovation in the cloud/container CI/CD space, but next to nothing elsewhere. In fact, some of the innovations in CI/CD make things _more_ difficult for those of us developing in other environments (such as game development). There's a lot of low hanging fruit for improving things elsewhere.

lazypenguin 5y ago
Yes! I’m responsible for a game development CI/CD pipeline that needs to run on windows and I feel like it’s harder than it needs to be in 2022.
jeremy_k 5y ago
Do you work in game development? I would love to hear a little bit more about your experience. I play and follow Apex Legends and I'm always so curious about how bugs and regressions seem to make it into every one of their patches. As well as tons of new information that gets data-mined. To me, its like they don't have branches (tons of new code not accessible in the game is released in a patch) and they don't have unit tests that catch bugs (a certain ability has 2 modes, with 2 different activation times. In the most recent patch, the activation times ended up the same) but it's possible that developing a game is far different than developing a SaaS product from a coding perspective. Or it could be that studio just has weird practices.
- judge2020 5y ago
  > As well as tons of new information that gets data-mined. Client side encryption is basically impossible; the decryption key has to be in the executable you ship somewhere, or at least sent to the client after a connection with the server. Perhaps some encryption tiering system could work to keep unreleased locked content locked for longer but I don’t think anyone has gone through that trouble yet.
- antihero 5y ago
  > To me, its like they don't have branches (tons of new code not accessible in the game is released in a patch) This is likely by choice, feature flags have a fair few advantages over feature branches and are generally far less of a pain point long term.
  - maccard 5y ago
    > This is likely by choice It's likely because of inertia. I don't work for EA, but the majority of games studios use Perforce for source control which has... awful support for branches. They've got streams which are a huge improvement, but still nowhere near as flexible or easy to use as branches in git.
larusso 5y ago
Exactly. I manage a CI infrastructure for a mobile game company (28 macs, a few Linux and windows VMs). I still can‘t use docker because our main development box is still macOS. We are slowly moving this to Linux. The reasons why we are still using macs as the main build machines are manyfolded. I know that android SDK and Unity run on Linux but our whole company came from a iOS first model and still uses macOS as the primary development box. But even docker would not help 100%. I have a strong emphasis that the tools run locally as well. And we have a mix of build and development tools. What I mean is that one and the same basic script should be used both during CI and differently with other parameters during development. Jenkins is our build executor. The whole build is setup with gradle as it had 5 years ago some very nice properties over other tools (self bootstrapping, robust plugin system, lots of libraries available). We build everything around this and only use Jenkins-pipelines to kick of said gradle jobs. But I would prefer a nicer solution. Ah we manage the machines with ansible (Mac, windows and Linux) I guess redhad had not thought about the fact that someone took the Multiplattform claims to the test. I can say it is kind of a nightmare to Code playbooks and roles against three different OS types.

by jaaron 5y ago

lazypenguin 5y ago

Yes! I’m responsible for a game development CI/CD pipeline that needs to run on windows and I feel like it’s harder than it needs to be in 2022.

jeremy_k 5y ago

Do you work in game development? I would love to hear a little bit more about your experience. I play and follow Apex Legends and I'm always so curious about how bugs and regressions seem to make it into every one of their patches. As well as tons of new information that gets data-mined. To me, its like they don't have branches (tons of new code not accessible in the game is released in a patch) and they don't have unit tests that catch bugs (a certain ability has 2 modes, with 2 different activation times. In the most recent patch, the activation times ended up the same) but it's possible that developing a game is far different than developing a SaaS product from a coding perspective. Or it could be that studio just has weird practices.

judge2020 5y ago
> As well as tons of new information that gets data-mined. Client side encryption is basically impossible; the decryption key has to be in the executable you ship somewhere, or at least sent to the client after a connection with the server. Perhaps some encryption tiering system could work to keep unreleased locked content locked for longer but I don’t think anyone has gone through that trouble yet.
antihero 5y ago
> To me, its like they don't have branches (tons of new code not accessible in the game is released in a patch) This is likely by choice, feature flags have a fair few advantages over feature branches and are generally far less of a pain point long term.
- maccard 5y ago
  > This is likely by choice It's likely because of inertia. I don't work for EA, but the majority of games studios use Perforce for source control which has... awful support for branches. They've got streams which are a huge improvement, but still nowhere near as flexible or easy to use as branches in git.

larusso 5y ago

Exactly. I manage a CI infrastructure for a mobile game company (28 macs, a few Linux and windows VMs). I still can‘t use docker because our main development box is still macOS. We are slowly moving this to Linux. The reasons why we are still using macs as the main build machines are manyfolded. I know that android SDK and Unity run on Linux but our whole company came from a iOS first model and still uses macOS as the primary development box. But even docker would not help 100%. I have a strong emphasis that the tools run locally as well. And we have a mix of build and development tools. What I mean is that one and the same basic script should be used both during CI and differently with other parameters during development. Jenkins is our build executor. The whole build is setup with gradle as it had 5 years ago some very nice properties over other tools (self bootstrapping, robust plugin system, lots of libraries available). We build everything around this and only use Jenkins-pipelines to kick of said gradle jobs. But I would prefer a nicer solution. Ah we manage the machines with ansible (Mac, windows and Linux) I guess redhad had not thought about the fact that someone took the Multiplattform claims to the test. I can say it is kind of a nightmare to Code playbooks and roles against three different OS types.