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I've watched a few of this guy's videos, and it's deeply impressive. He reminds me of the grizzled old guys from the 1980's that actually know the deep interna

I've watched a few of this guy's videos, and it's deeply impressive. He reminds me of the grizzled old guys from the 1980's that actually know the deep internals of an OS. They didn't just take it in school, they lived and breathed it. He's the guy that made the 'myth' of a 10x coder a reality for me. I get this is his passion project, but part of me wonders what he could accomplish working on the rough edges of linux.

queuebert 5y ago
Linux's rough edges form a fractal.
- klysm 5y ago
  A fractal with loops
  - postingposts 5y ago
    A fractal with loops is a Chaotic Map. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_chaotic_maps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_chaotic_maps
    - klysm 5y ago
      Wow thanks for the link! These are beautiful
vinkelhake 5y ago
> I get this is his passion project, but part of me wonders what he could accomplish working on the rough edges of linux. I've watched/listened to more than a few of his videos. Something that he has expressed on more than one occasion is an appreciation for the kind of deep vertical integration that he saw at Apple because they control the entire stack. He's going for something in that direction in Serenity and it, for example, means that they're not taking on low-level dependencies on other projects. Anyway, this is perhaps a roundabout way of saying that I don't think he'd be all that interested in hacking on Linux - a project that very much goes against that kind of integration.
- quux 5y ago
  He's also talked about this on the CoRecursive Podcast: Andreas: Well, I don’t know that I ever had a real direction with it. But in the beginning, I remember feeling kind of frustrated with finding myself using Linux again and thinking it’s nice to be back on Linux. Everything is snappy. And the developer experience is really great, but I sure do miss having the source code for everything. Adam: This is a fascinating distinction to draw. Linux is open source. Everyone has access to the code. But if you listen to episode 70 with Joey Hess talking about Debian, making changes can be a bureaucratic process. And that’s just for one distribution. There are hundreds of Linux distributions. Even if it’s a one line change, it could take years to get that upstreamed and spread into various Linux distributions. If you listen to episode 67 about Zig, that was one of Andrew’s motivations behind creating Zig. But meanwhile, Andreas has another strategy at Apple. Everything was in one place, and everything was built internally. Andreas: And when you’re in that environment, it’s extremely powerful. https://corecursive.com/serenity-os-with-andreas-kling/ https://corecursive.com/serenity-os-with-andreas-kling/
  - oh_sigh 5y ago
    It seems like the problem is power distance and social credit. Random developer trying to get one line of code changed may run up into a gigantic wall. What about with Linus? The "problem" with Serenity OS is that yes, now Andreas will have all the power he wants and can get that one line change without the bureaucratic process. But what about when some random user comes along and wants to change the code? They better start programming on Tranquility OS.
    - akling 5y ago
      If you look at the contributors graphs[1] on our GitHub repository, you'll find that folks other than myself have added tens of thousands of lines of code. I'm not quite the power-hungry gatekeeper you might imagine :^) Regardless, the issue I have with the mainstream FOSS desktop system isn't about any one project's development process, but rather the fact that there are hundreds of independent development processes, each controlling a small fraction of the whole system. Doing any kind of cross-subsystem work in that environment becomes a significant undertaking, and that's what I'd like to avoid. [1] https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/graphs/contributors https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/graphs/contributors
rjh29 5y ago
By his own admission he basically did nothing but coding all day long for most of his life, to the point where if he took a long vacation he'd be worried about getting rusty. For SerenityOS he basically holed up in a cabin for 6 months coding. At dayjob it was "60-80 hours a week", not forced but because he wanted to do it. That kind of sustained and focused work compounds over time and you just get better and better I guess. Reading stories like his makes me think I'm probably in the wrong industry because I don't enjoy coding that much and definitely have a ton of other things I'd rather do.
- smt88 5y ago
  I don't think someone who enjoys coding that much is neurotypical, and I think you can be both neurotypical and a great programmer.
- eternityforest 5y ago
  I don't think there's anything at all wrong with only coding 40 hours a week or less. SerenityOS is an amazing accomplishment but it's just a hobby project without massive resources like major projects have. Most real world apps have tons of devs that don't do 60 hours, the modern dev process just doesn't need it, unless you're doing large things entirely done by small teams.
- tharne 5y ago
  > Reading stories like his makes me think I'm probably in the wrong industry because I don't enjoy coding that much and definitely have a ton of other things I'd rather do. You're fine. Comparing yourself to Andreas Kling vis-a-vis coding is like saying you're going to stop playing the guitar because you're not Jimi Hendrix. Andreas Kling, while impressive and inspiring, is not normal. Most people, myself included, don't want to do any one thing for 80+ hours a week. That's okay. If you enjoy working as programmer, just keep on trukin' and don't worry about what others are doing.
  - rjh29 5y ago
    Thanks, that is a good analogy and definitely helped me!
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

queuebert 5y ago

Linux's rough edges form a fractal.

klysm 5y ago
A fractal with loops
- postingposts 5y ago
  A fractal with loops is a Chaotic Map. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_chaotic_maps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_chaotic_maps
  - klysm 5y ago
    Wow thanks for the link! These are beautiful

vinkelhake 5y ago

> I get this is his passion project, but part of me wonders what he could accomplish working on the rough edges of linux. I've watched/listened to more than a few of his videos. Something that he has expressed on more than one occasion is an appreciation for the kind of deep vertical integration that he saw at Apple because they control the entire stack. He's going for something in that direction in Serenity and it, for example, means that they're not taking on low-level dependencies on other projects. Anyway, this is perhaps a roundabout way of saying that I don't think he'd be all that interested in hacking on Linux - a project that very much goes against that kind of integration.

quux 5y ago
He's also talked about this on the CoRecursive Podcast: Andreas: Well, I don’t know that I ever had a real direction with it. But in the beginning, I remember feeling kind of frustrated with finding myself using Linux again and thinking it’s nice to be back on Linux. Everything is snappy. And the developer experience is really great, but I sure do miss having the source code for everything. Adam: This is a fascinating distinction to draw. Linux is open source. Everyone has access to the code. But if you listen to episode 70 with Joey Hess talking about Debian, making changes can be a bureaucratic process. And that’s just for one distribution. There are hundreds of Linux distributions. Even if it’s a one line change, it could take years to get that upstreamed and spread into various Linux distributions. If you listen to episode 67 about Zig, that was one of Andrew’s motivations behind creating Zig. But meanwhile, Andreas has another strategy at Apple. Everything was in one place, and everything was built internally. Andreas: And when you’re in that environment, it’s extremely powerful. https://corecursive.com/serenity-os-with-andreas-kling/ https://corecursive.com/serenity-os-with-andreas-kling/
- oh_sigh 5y ago
  It seems like the problem is power distance and social credit. Random developer trying to get one line of code changed may run up into a gigantic wall. What about with Linus? The "problem" with Serenity OS is that yes, now Andreas will have all the power he wants and can get that one line change without the bureaucratic process. But what about when some random user comes along and wants to change the code? They better start programming on Tranquility OS.
  - akling 5y ago
    If you look at the contributors graphs[1] on our GitHub repository, you'll find that folks other than myself have added tens of thousands of lines of code. I'm not quite the power-hungry gatekeeper you might imagine :^) Regardless, the issue I have with the mainstream FOSS desktop system isn't about any one project's development process, but rather the fact that there are hundreds of independent development processes, each controlling a small fraction of the whole system. Doing any kind of cross-subsystem work in that environment becomes a significant undertaking, and that's what I'd like to avoid. [1] https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/graphs/contributors https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/graphs/contributors

rjh29 5y ago

By his own admission he basically did nothing but coding all day long for most of his life, to the point where if he took a long vacation he'd be worried about getting rusty. For SerenityOS he basically holed up in a cabin for 6 months coding. At dayjob it was "60-80 hours a week", not forced but because he wanted to do it. That kind of sustained and focused work compounds over time and you just get better and better I guess. Reading stories like his makes me think I'm probably in the wrong industry because I don't enjoy coding that much and definitely have a ton of other things I'd rather do.

smt88 5y ago
I don't think someone who enjoys coding that much is neurotypical, and I think you can be both neurotypical and a great programmer.
eternityforest 5y ago
I don't think there's anything at all wrong with only coding 40 hours a week or less. SerenityOS is an amazing accomplishment but it's just a hobby project without massive resources like major projects have. Most real world apps have tons of devs that don't do 60 hours, the modern dev process just doesn't need it, unless you're doing large things entirely done by small teams.
tharne 5y ago
> Reading stories like his makes me think I'm probably in the wrong industry because I don't enjoy coding that much and definitely have a ton of other things I'd rather do. You're fine. Comparing yourself to Andreas Kling vis-a-vis coding is like saying you're going to stop playing the guitar because you're not Jimi Hendrix. Andreas Kling, while impressive and inspiring, is not normal. Most people, myself included, don't want to do any one thing for 80+ hours a week. That's okay. If you enjoy working as programmer, just keep on trukin' and don't worry about what others are doing.
- rjh29 5y ago
  Thanks, that is a good analogy and definitely helped me!

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]